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Chad Duvall's new Quad???
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Posted by: lt250r91
Check this out.
http://www.gasgasatv.com/
Well do you think he'll be on that machine at the next GNCC?
Posted by: xXxSpeedxXx
I think that quad looks pretty sweet. I don't know about Chad being on it for the next GNCC though.
Posted by: gncc571
Looks pretty good just hope it don't over heat on him!
Posted by: QuadTrix6
hes not gonna ride the 400ex anymore 
Posted by: Joecool1264
Man that thing is off the hook! But I want his old ride!
Posted by: Martin Blair
stupid ****** trader
Posted by: toby400ex
i wonder if they are sponsoring him, i wouldnt blame him. This is a big sign honda needs to step it up
Posted by: lt250r91
quote:
Originally posted by Joecool1264
Man that thing is off the hook! But I want his old ride!
I think Mickey said the 400ex is for sale. He already sold Chad practice one.
As for Chad racing the GasGas as far as I know nothing is set in stone yet. GasGas I think gave Mickey the quad and Mickey says Chad will be on it, but as for a deal being signed with GasGas you would have to ask Mickey or Chad. I hope for GasGas's sake that Chad will race it. GasGas needs someone to promote their machine. We'll have to wait until Sept. when the next GNCC is to find out.
Posted by: Ryan
That thing looks sweet!
I don't think GasGas will be sponsering Chad Duvall..... They might though.
Last I heard was Mickey is/has helped "GasGas" get some of the bugs out of their machines.
Posted by: lt250r91
quote:
Originally posted by Ryan
That thing looks sweet!
I don't think GasGas will be sponsering Chad Duvall..... They might though.
Last I heard was Mickey is/has helped "GasGas" get some of the bugs out of their machines.
Ryan
That was what I heard too. I'm hoping that at the end of the season GasGas will be impressed with what Chad and Mickey has done for GasGas and work out some kind of deal with Chad and Mickey for next season. If not I can see Yamaha signing Chad for next season. So how I see it Chad should have a factory ride for the 04 season. The question is what blue 450 will he be on? I'm hoping the GasGas.
Posted by: Dunlap
Chad already has the best ride besides Bill B. As far as for the new yamaha I was not impressed. So far if I had to pay for a new Pro-production racer I would buy the GAS GAS 450, it has everything that a GNCC'er need's,great shock's,tire's,big gas tank,good power,super handling,long swing arm,alum. skid's,anti-vibe stem,very EZ clutch and the best brake's I have ever had on any atv.If Chad like's it half as much as I do everyone is in for a big surprize when we come back from the break.
Posted by: cinigen9
Mickey - could you expand on what you didnt like about the yamaha?
thanks
Posted by: trx400ex
quote:
Originally posted by cinigen9
Mickey - could you expand on what you didnt like about he yamaha?
thanks
yes, i would like to hear what you have to say about the yfz, personally i could never own anything called a gas-gas..sounds like some little kids toy
Posted by: remlapr
Did you guys see where GasGas quoted exriders:
quote:
He also just posted on exriders that pro production rider Brad Marci (Gncc #29and currently 18 overall and 7 in the pro production class) is going to race a GasGas 450 at Wisp (round 9 Gncc Jun 28). The quad is the one Chad Duvall will be racing later in the season. Brad is going to do some testing it for Chad since his YFZ450 if not ready yet. So Brad will know first hand which machine is better after he races both the GasGas and YFZ. Be interesting to see which one he likes better
Posted by: bansheeguy77
hahaha thats so cool...atleast we know they care about us.
HI GAS GAS!!! wahooooo i feel like im on tv holding up a sign
Posted by: Dunlap
First of all, on the new Yamaha the angle of the front A-arms is such where you will have to run the first part of your suspension extremely soft for the little bumps which will cause rolling in the corners compared to a Honda or a Gas Gas and even the Suzuki that are laid back farther at an angle that allows the suspension to be stiffer but yet soak up the small bumps. The handlebar to seat relationship felt like I was riding a Breeze instead of a full size machine. The footpegs were very high so I felt scrunched up on the machine. Maybe it's built for people 5 foot and under but I was very uncomfortable on it. Motor-wise, it has little or no flywheel and was very easy to stall on a smooth moto-cross let alone a rocky, rutted out cross-country course. The motor lacked torque and has little or no way of making a big, torqy motor out of it except for maybe an 80 over piston which is only going to make it stall even easier and with the small battery that's not going to be a good thing if you have to start it all the time. I am sure with a higher steering stem and maybe some Pro Pegs that are lowered the machine might feel better but the handling and the motor are going to be a bigger obstacle for cross-country riders. Everyone that has ridden the Gas Gas was very comfortable on it and adapted to it quickly.
Posted by: Ryan
I have a few questions about the Gas-Gas machines....
Q)I hear they come 52' wide 
. I also heard it is ajustable to 48' or something :confused2 . Im wondering how well the stock width (or widths) will do for cross country racing? Im sure Duvall's bike will be mostly aftermarket, but how well will it do mostly stock?
Q) I thought I saw somewhere that a Gas-Gas 450 was about 407 pounds (dry weight). If this is true, Do these machines feel very heavy to throw around or a bit harder to control than the lighter bikes??
Thanks......
Posted by: 440EX4me
Sounds like we may be seeing Chad Duvall on a Gas Gas this fall, damn Honda is loosing another great rider/racer.
Posted by: Dunlap
The front is at 48" now on Chad's GAS GAS but we run his Honda at 47" and we would like to have the GAS GAS down to 46" so we should have the World Class arm's this week to try. At the WISP and other GNCC race's 48" would have been fine. Chad's GAS GAS is going to be stock for the most part,that's the reason we wanted to work with them, it's the best right off the show room floor! I have not put it on the scale's yet because riding it , it did'nt seem heavy so I did'nt even think about it. Two more thing's I liked about it was NO molded,rivited warning tags on the fender's where you need to put your sticker's and when you clean the plastic with gas to get the gummy stuff off and acetone to clean the gas off the plastic it still look's new! I know that may not seem like a big deal to some people but I like my team to look it's best every race.
Posted by: ranger400ex
Hey Mickey, why not a dale? Parts are easier to get now than when they were in production. Have you or Chad had some quality seat time on one?
Ben
Posted by: AndreS
i have a gas gas 300 and i've been very pleased with it so far, it has more power than my suzuki ever did & suspension is absolutely sweet.
i took a look at the pictures of chad's quad, and have a couple questions...
1-what pro-taper mounts did you use?
2- the bumper looks like an AC bumper, are they out now for the Gas Gas? what about other bumpers?
3- the front fairing looks sweet, is that one adapted from an R or something else, or is it custom for the gasgas & who makes it?
4- what kind of guard did you put on the radiator? i'm considering trying a '97 CR250 radiator louver... that's been recommended by a couple people.
that's a sharp looking ride!
Posted by: lt250r91
The best way to describe the front end rake of the YFZ that Mickey didn't like would be to compare it to how Suzuki built the lt250 and lt500 quadracers. The a-arms are almost parallel to the ground this causing the poor handling of the old suzuki quadracers. Honda when the designed the 250r they rolled the a-arms up so that when you hit a bump the a-arms move up and back soaking up more of the bump. The Suzuki design was more for mx where you land near perfectly flat all the time.
I agree with Mickey on Yamaha's new quad. Don't get me wrong Im glad to see them build a aimed for the race crowd, but I think they should have done a little more homework. Why not copy the frame geometry off the 250r? There is a reason everyone else does (including aftermarket companies). The Yamie looks to me like an over sizing blaster.
As for the GasGas there is not much you have to do to make it competitive for racing. Just dial in the suspension and add your personal touch. Yes it also needs to be narrowed a little. Still all the mods. I've done to mine is under 2k. Name any other quad that run with it under 10k total. Only one close is a cannondale.
Mickey,
I can wait to see this GasGas and BTW me and Kevin (gasgasatv.com) are getting the ball rolling on some stuff from ProArmor. So next time you talk to them ask about the GasGas line of Chad. That huge bumper that Ballance is using would like sweet on Chad's quad.
Mike
Posted by: Dunlap
Chad turned the Cannondale deal down last year to ride the 400EX for me - enough said about that. The handlebar mounts were just some kind of accessory add-on big bar conversion which is temporary until we get the GPR steering stabilizer system to replace it. The hood is from Quad Tech for a 400EX and the front bumper is an AC Racing Z-400 that I put in the press and bent the 2 top mounts closer to the bumper itself to line them up with the Gas Gas mounts. I have not put an radiator scoops or guards on yet. I am concentrating on setting the shocks up correctly and getting the front end narrowed up first. I was also told the Honda 250 guard works but I may come up with my own. AC has been a sponsor of mine for several years and I plan to stay with them as far as the bumpers go. We will probably put on a Pro Tech stainless steel rear skid.
Posted by: markeg192
Sounds like Yamaha missed again. Good Luck with the Gas Gas though!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: AndreS
Mickey- thanks for the info... i'll be looking into the GPR stabilizer too.
Posted by: ranger400ex
cool on the dale stuff, didn't realize they were looking to sidestep ya, i figured maybe a couple donation bikes could have been in order. just wanted to see if Chad our you had some seat time. Scott seems to be flying on the GG, I have took one for a trail smash and thought it did pretty well, new styled, upgraded R, and of course a better frame. they seem to lack on the "quality" of workmanship ie non finished welds, thin paint, couple other minor things, but alot better than the Z. I hope to throw a leg over a yzf this weekend, buddy got one, and wants me to break it in. not really, but hopefully will get some seat time. in the meantime though, I haven't found anything, IMO, that will be much better than the dale. Box stock, it is hands above the rest, the parts are easier to get now then when they were in business, and fuel-injection, spar oiling, and aluminum frame are nice, along with 400ex handling and control.
just my opinion
Ben
Posted by: Ryan
quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
The front is at 48" now on Chad's GAS GAS but we run his Honda at 47" and we would like to have the GAS GAS down to 46" so we should have the World Class arm's this week to try. At the WISP and other GNCC race's 48" would have been fine. Chad's GAS GAS is going to be stock for the most part,that's the reason we wanted to work with them, it's the best right off the show room floor! I have not put it on the scale's yet because riding it , it did'nt seem heavy so I did'nt even think about it. Two more thing's I liked about it was NO molded,rivited warning tags on the fender's where you need to put your sticker's and when you clean the plastic with gas to get the gummy stuff off and acetone to clean the gas off the plastic it still look's new! I know that may not seem like a big deal to some people but I like my team to look it's best every race.
'
Mickey, Is the 48" front the stock a-arms? I thought I heard somewhere that the width was adjustable? And if I put 4-1 offsets, can I bring the width in to around 46-47?
Edit: Also, does anyone know where I can find ALL of the specifications on the Gas Gas quads? The certain sites i've been to do not have the complete specs of the machine.
Posted by: Dunlap
48" is as narrow as you can get it with the 4+1's. It was at 52" stock with the 3+2's. As far as specs, I can tell you that ours has 11" - soon to be 12" - in the rear and close to 11" up front. We will run about 3" to 4" of sag with a seat height of 31". Side by side, the Gas Gas is about 1/2" longer than the 450 Yamaha with the same seat height.
Posted by: GNCCer
Funny you should mention how small the YFZ is. yes it is small but I am 6'-4" and over two hundred pounds and I do not feel cramped on it at all. It just feel like a small light quad is under you that is very easy to move around. I have been running a 400 ex almost exactly like chads and I feel much more comfortable on the yfz. yes it needs low end. but so does a 250r. the fly wheel is very light, yes. but again an easy fix. I will wait on the pipe this weekend before I dis the power of the quad. I don't think it will be very hard at all to fix a couple of things and it be a very competitive quad. I like the handeliing on it better than my ex, and yes it was set up Identicle to Chad's
Posted by: Teufel
Hey Mickey,
Just a thought; you might mention to Chad that it doesn't do alot for the sport or his sponsors to regularly flip off lap riders as he goes by them!! I wish I had my camera when he came through the half pipe at Wisp , on the FST quad, with that middle finger in the air. He is an awesome rider too bad he doesn't have the character to deal with his frustrations on the track!
Posted by: Dunlap
When I first read your post I was a little shocked(not that I like what Chad may have done)but that someone had something bad to say about him.I have never heard anyone say anything bad about Chad,I do know he(like most pro's I have seen)get's a little excited when slower rider's hold them up,and we do use up alot of bumper's in a season.I did take some time and read two pages of your post to find out what kind of character you are.I am sorry but I don't think you can point your finger at someone(NO PUN INTENDED) when you post" Faah-Q Racing" on your page.
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
but I don't think you can point your finger at someone(NO PUN INTENDED) when you post" Faah-Q Racing" on your page.
LMFAO well said.
So your saying Chad doesnt know what that finger is for 
Posted by: Teufel
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
[B]When I first read your post I was a little shocked(not that I like what Chad may have done)but that someone had something bad to say about him.I have never heard anyone say anything bad about Chad,I do know he(like most pro's I have seen)get's a little excited when slower rider's hold them up,and we do use up alot of bumper's in a season.I did take some time and read two pages of your post to find out what kind of character you are.I am sorry but I don't think you can point your finger at someone(NO PUN INTENDED) when you post" Faah-Q Racing" on your
Point taken , However my sig isn't put there in anger, and of course I am not a Pro rider riding for a Team " That I would think would want to promote the sport and sportsmanship of the sport. Up to this year I have race my share of Gncc's and H.S. racing and can underastand the frustrations of lap riders. That's why I never commented on Chad's gestures in the past.
However I have to wonder how the rider at wisp was holding him up at the half pipe when there was plenty of room to race for the couple of hundred yards of open track prior to and including the half pipe.
It amazes me that some of the pro riders don't understand that if it weren't for the amateur riders the series wouldn't be what it is, not to mention that the majority of their fan base consists of those very same amateur riders...
One of my friends may have caught it on his digital video, if so I will post it maybe, I misunderstood his gesture
Posted by: Dunlap
Thank you for you insite on Chad I will talk to him about it,he might have been just showing support for your race team. I still don't understand why you would take the time to even post something like this in the first place. If you are so concerned with how this make's him look I would think you would go to him and tell him about it. Maybe before you point out someone else's character defect's you shoud look at the other three finger's pointing back at your self.
Posted by: Teufel
, i just want to understand, maybe it will help me in my therapy
Posted by: ranger400ex
Hey T, some people are never wrong.
Man I need to go riding. I need to put the tailight back on the dale so the other riders have something to follow.
Ben
Posted by: lt250r91
Teufel & Mickey
I've know Chad for a couple years and have raced against him many times over those years and I can't believe Chad would do something like that specially in an open area like that. Don't get me wrong I'm not calling anyone a lair here. Chad my have made the gesture. My first question would be how the other rider was? Maybe it was a fellow rider that Chad races with alot and it's something between them. Or maybe the other guy did something to get Chad to do this. Maybe the guy gave the finger to him first. Until you know the whole story I would judge Chad on it.
Chad has made many gestures to me this season when he has be lapping me, but all of the have been to incourage me to rider harder. Chad is a First class pro racer and has more natural talent than any other pro in the GNCC series in my mine. He like most of the other pros will help you out to no ends on tips in racing. Maybe to only reason I am still racing this season is do to words of incouragement that Chad has given me this year. So to just say something about Chad being unprofessional what knowing all the details doesn't set well for me. I will too ask Chad about it next time I see him.
Posted by: Smokey
Just so you know and maybe you should try to get in the pits and talk to Chad . That is not Chad off the track . I ask him about it tonight and he said the guy had cut him off and he thought he was going to hurt him . That would of made me mad enough to do that too , hell I have cussed a rider on the track .It wasnt right of me but in the heat of the moment you dont think of that . All of those guys are differant on and off the track and any RACER will tell you that . The slower riders just dont watch whats going on and they do dumb things .But the sport needs them in there too. If you think Chad reacted bad how do you think it would of been if it was Matt Smilley or one of the other Pros ?? It wouldnt of been that nice . All I can say is before you put down someone like Chad who has done alot for the sport , maybe you should try to walk in his shoes for a few races .
Posted by: quadman21
Everyone has gotten a little off the subject here. Chad is a stand-up guy and everyone reacts to situations differently. I used to really like Matt smiley for his riding ability but a person's character outweights any ability he/she may have. Matt smiley is not that "nice" of a person. Some of his actions have changed my opinions. Like Smokey said, if it were another rider they might have not reacted as polite. Just look a Yokley. He got busted twice last season on TV not beong so "nice" if you guys watched the OLN shows. I know I got off the subject a little but no one is perfect and we are all human. We make mistakes when we get angry and do things we wouldn't normally do.
Posted by: Joecool1264
Ya'll come to Oklahoma and race with us, we're real friendly. At almost every XC event when one of our Pro class Quadriders break or work the race someone will end up out in the woods MOONING the other riders. It's funny as you know what. You're blasting through to woods looking for good lines then BAM, a big O booty shining right at you. We Keep it light and fun.Once you run with us you're never quite the same.
Posted by: 440EX4me
I dont know if being from NJ has anything to do with but I dont take offense to the one finger salute and just salute back in respect
But seriously I dont know if you all are making more of this stuff than need be, and I am not sure if I expect any professional athlete to be 100% polite and meet everyones expectations. I do expect them to be professional and not cross other lines such as retaliating for being "saluted back" but cant say I am surprised that some let the heat of the moment get to them etc.
Look at how the medial plays on the major sports pro's and how everyone expects these guys to be role models for the children, do you want this pysco thinking in our sport? Things allways get blown out of proportion and peoples ego's and expectations get flattened everyday, its just part of the program called life.
So dont look to me for sympathy if your favorite major league pitcher or pro atv rider etc. isnt living up to the role model standards because I dont think they have to and some people just arent role model material. Add to this the fact that under the stresses of competition and with your adrenaline pumping you could easily do things off color for your normal behavior.
I know we all look at our sport as one big family and understand how some could be upset with stuff like this but every family isnt perfect all the time either.
So lets not make more of this all than it is and hope that next time your passing the guy saluting you
Posted by: erac4019
Soooooo..... How about that new FST GAS GAS?
Posted by: Dunlap
The GAS GAS is getting better every day. I just got done with the shock set up and we now have 12" of travel in the rear and just under 11" in front with a 46" wide front end.
Posted by: erac4019
Mickey, Is Gas Gas acctually sponsoring Chad or do the guy's on your team just pick a 4 stroke quad and you R&D the crap out of it to make it the best bike possible?
Posted by: Dunlap
I can't realy talk about that at this time.
Posted by: erac4019
That's cool, let us know when you can let the cat out
Posted by: JEFF8400EX
micky
how is the handleing has chad rode it yet????
Posted by: 12gofast
quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
First of all, on the new Yamaha the angle of the front A-arms is such where you will have to run the first part of your suspension extremely soft for the little bumps which will cause rolling in the corners compared to a Honda or a Gas Gas and even the Suzuki that are laid back farther at an angle that allows the suspension to be stiffer but yet soak up the small bumps. The handlebar to seat relationship felt like I was riding a Breeze instead of a full size machine. The footpegs were very high so I felt scrunched up on the machine. Maybe it's built for people 5 foot and under but I was very uncomfortable on it. Motor-wise, it has little or no flywheel and was very easy to stall on a smooth moto-cross let alone a rocky, rutted out cross-country course. The motor lacked torque and has little or no way of making a big, torqy motor out of it except for maybe an 80 over piston which is only going to make it stall even easier and with the small battery that's not going to be a good thing if you have to start it all the time. I am sure with a higher steering stem and maybe some Pro Pegs that are lowered the machine might feel better but the handling and the motor are going to be a bigger obstacle for cross-country riders. Everyone that has ridden the Gas Gas was very comfortable on it and adapted to it quickly.
Sounds like an advertisement from Gas Gas and somebody who is UPSET with Yamaha from past experiences.....maybe you shouldn't criticize until it has been riden by a few other people and a combined opinion can be put together. I believe Barry said it is the best quad he has EVER riden, but of course he is sponsored by Yamaha. Maybe very similiar to your situation with Gas Gas.
People value expert opinion, but not bashing because your receiving free products or services from a manufacturer i.e. magazine editors.
Just my 2 cents!
I am anxious to put a good ride in on a Yamaha to garner my own opinion.
Posted by: 465Stroker
YFZ450 -
Here is what I think it has - And I do own one and have been doing a fair amount of field testing on one.
1. Yamaha did actually look at what was being raced by GNCC & GNC riders when they decided to put it on paper.
2. The rear shock and suspension is the closest anyone has come to a LAEGER setup - and it works VERY when the shock is setup properly. The CR500 & YZ400 Linkage is about 75% of the Pro Lineup at the GNC's.
3. Front end rake - It does have rake - Actually looks to be about the same as a ROLL DESIGN which has no were near the rake as a LEAGER or LONESTAR frame. 3 Years ago when they started to design the frame ROLL DESIGN was 75% of the Pro Lineup at he GNCC's. Though many have changed to the LRD frame - most still say that the ROLL DESIGN still works the best.
4. A-Arms - #2 & #3 Combined - ROLL DESIGN style design with Laeger spindle / A-Arm Caster Settings. I would say that at the GNC's and GNCC's it is about a 50/50 split between LAEGER and ROLL DESIGN with most other companies that make up the remainding basically copying either of them.
5. Motor - Feels easy to stall - but we have found with proper jetting changes that you can get the motor to almost die and still pull out of turns with much ease. For GNCC's a slight increase in compression and pipe should make any low end problems go away.
6. Shocks - OK for the weekend warrior - but will need to be springed and revalved to your specs. They were way to stiff for myself and I weight 200 lbs.
7. What does it need? Front end needs more caster in it - It is way to twitchy for me, Steering stem stops need to be cut down - Does not turn shape enough, Rear Brake Resivor (sp?) needs relocated, and of course the norm - Handlebars, wheels, tires, skids, etc.
Once again - only an opinion.
Posted by: jlhughes750
hey Rick, have u lined it up against the Dale yet???? just curious..
Posted by: 465Stroker
Nope - They would be very close in drags. I would say the cannondale has a smoother power delivery which most likely has to do with the fuel injection..
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by 465Stroker
Nope - They would be very close in drags. I would say the cannondale has a smoother power delivery which most likely has to do with the fuel injection..
If I remember correctly cannondale set up their 440 to be able to be tuned by different mapping for the power to be smooth as silk or hit all at once and anyware in between, but correct me if I am wrong.
Yamaha on the other hand had designed the yzf450 engine to mimic a two strokes power band and from every one of the dirt bikes and quad conversions I have seen and every rider I have talked with they did a great job duplicating the two stroke. One rider that I had talked with who had just swapped the yami 426 for the 450 was very happy with the top end hit but also said it was lower in the bottom end and no ware near the honda cr450 motored quads he had raced etc. and from talks with the two wheel mx guys it just lacks on the bottom but pulls like mad on the top.
This quad is without a doubt the best I have seen in the yami line up and after everyone agrees that were comparing it to our custom aftermarket equiped machines and that we would need to do the same to this one also to be happy with it etc. Then the reality that this quad should perform excelent with similar mods and potentially out peform many of the machines being reced today should begin.
Posted by: 12gofast
Now we are getting some insight.....Thanks for the opinions 465, that puts a better perspective on things.
I will be building a project YFZ for my company this fall and will comment on pieces and parts and let everyone know my opinions as well.
Posted by: 465Stroker
No matter what map you use in a cannondale - I still feel that the power delivery will be smoother. It is just the difference between a carb and fuel injection - plain and simple. Keep in mind that a Cannondale, CRF or YZF motors were all built to replace 2 stroke motors - An XR400 for example was not. For a rider coming off of a 400EX onto either a YFZ or Cannondale - Both motors will feel like a 2 stroke feel to them with power delivery. I guess it is all in what you are use too riding.
Posted by: OCCRA288
quote:
Originally posted by Joecool1264
Ya'll come to Oklahoma and race with us, we're real friendly. At almost every XC event when one of our Pro class Quadriders break or work the race someone will end up out in the woods MOONING the other riders. It's funny as you know what. You're blasting through to woods looking for good lines then BAM, a big O booty shining right at you. We Keep it light and fun.Once you run with us you're never quite the same.
Somehow I know this is aimed at me. so here . (|)
The Mooning is getting to be pretty frequent isn't it Joe? How that collar bone. I'll have my quad back together next week hopefully. This is Eric by the way
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by 465Stroker
No matter what map you use in a cannondale - I still feel that the power delivery will be smoother. It is just the difference between a carb and fuel injection - plain and simple. Keep in mind that a Cannondale, CRF or YZF motors were all built to replace 2 stroke motors - An XR400 for example was not. For a rider coming off of a 400EX onto either a YFZ or Cannondale - Both motors will feel like a 2 stroke feel to them with power delivery. I guess it is all in what you are use too riding.
Agreed, but I think the internal parts play a part in this also. I would be looking at piston skirt length, bore v/s stroke and cam profiles etc and thinking that some engines are much more designed for top end than others that may still consider lower end hp and torque very important.
I am yet to ride any yz450 engined machine (2 or 4 wheels) but I have watched the two wheelers side by side with the cannondale bikes and you can see the difference off the line.
I guess its all good since the more performance oriented the mfg's become the better the products avail to us will be.
BTW you wouldnt believe how many people with Raptors that I know are now kicking and screaming and calling yami names and wanting to sell their machines.
Posted by: 660bigdaddy
quote:
BTW you wouldnt believe how many people with Raptors that I know are now kicking and screaming and calling yami names and wanting to sell their machines.
try me. i really would like to know how many...
i'm not kicking and screaming and i race a raptor. i think it's great yammy has such a broad sport quad lineup. they just keep getting better and better. they continue to release new quads, while others do color/name changes on the same old machine.
i bought 2 rappy's at full retail. so i'll wait this time to get a deal on the yfz. and also see how they make out in the first year...
glad to hear 12gofast and stroker have the yfz. keep us informed,i trust your opinions....
Posted by: Joecool1264
Hey 288 your right it's getting pretty common. Un settling as H3ll when your coming to the trees. You missed it, I worked the Charity race flagging the pond double, Laura laid out in the in field sunbathing in her bikini. Funny how guys started to ride up and talk after that LOL. See after the break Joe.
Posted by: chad duvall
just wanted to explain my actions at the wisp race
I appoligize first for being the heat of the moment reaction but you need to see the hole picture of what i had to over come to get to that point. anyways sorry for that, no it isnt my character but lately it seems that a few riders are wanting to take me out. i do have a family
and this is a family sport so i will try and refrain from this next time. if you know me in the woods and some of the other (pro-non pro) racers we joke in some manors to that way to keep it fun. this is of course still for the love and fun of the sport? any questions you may have for me is well taken and appreciate the comments but not at the expence of making this sport anymore of a political argument. i respect any and ALL racers so try and not judge me before you hear my side, i try and promote a good family atmosphere and make itwell worth my sponsors time. thank you! ps more to come on my new ride????
Posted by: Johnny_G
Chad is and always has been first class............I continue to look up to him both on and off the track!!!!
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by 660bigdaddy
try me. i really would like to know how many...
i'm not kicking and screaming and i race a raptor. i think it's great yammy has such a broad sport quad lineup. they just keep getting better and better. they continue to release new quads, while others do color/name changes on the same old machine.
i bought 2 rappy's at full retail. so i'll wait this time to get a deal on the yfz. and also see how they make out in the first year...
glad to hear 12gofast and stroker have the yfz. keep us informed,i trust your opinions....
Dont get me wrong I have rode more than one raptor and I do like them, but I guess the same guys that had to run out and get the raptor because it was the biggest and bestest and newest and just est are the ones who want to be doing it again with the yfz.
Personally wheather Yami or Honda I will agree with your idea of waiting and if not only for a deal (who wants to get ripped paying retail +) for the peace of mind that most of the bugs were worked out or at least are known.
And guys please do keep us posted.
Posted by: Bill Fuller
quote:
Originally posted by chad duvall
just wanted to explain my actions at the wisp race
I appoligize first for being the heat of the moment reaction but you need to see the hole picture of what i had to over come to get to that point. anyways sorry for that, no it isnt my character but lately it seems that a few riders are wanting to take me out. i do have a family
and this is a family sport so i will try and refrain from this next time. if you know me in the woods and some of the other (pro-non pro) racers we joke in some manors to that way to keep it fun. this is of course still for the love and fun of the sport? any questions you may have for me is well taken and appreciate the comments but not at the expence of making this sport anymore of a political argument. i respect any and ALL racers so try and not judge me before you hear my side, i try and promote a good family atmosphere and make itwell worth my sponsors time. thank you! ps more to come on my new ride????
Now there is a true role model for our sport and a real man to come out and explain his actions to a bunch of wanna bees like us.Chad you are truley a great person thanks for all you do.And by the way if you pass me I would enjoy it if you showed me I was #1 with the ole one finger salute!!
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Fuller
Now there is a true role model for our sport and a real man to come out and explain his actions to a bunch of wanna bees like us.Chad you are truley a great person thanks for all you do.And by the way if you pass me I would enjoy it if you showed me I was #1 with the ole one finger salute!!
Posted by: Dunlap
12goslow maybe you should'nt be so fast to judge me! I'am working on motor's for people at YAMAHA as we speak,and will be building a 450 in to a 500 for them later. I do'nt get anything free from the mag's. I have riden all the atv's out there at this time and I like the 450 GAS GAS the best. Barry is a smaller person and fits the YAMAHA better than I do and Iam SURE it will work good for some people.The motor IS going to be a big problem and the more you build it the bigger the problem is going to get. In case you don't remember I had Brian Baker on a 426 back in 2000,so I have already bin there done that! I GETTING REAL SICK of people bashing me everytime I make a statement on here,and most of the time if not everytime it come's from someone that should just keep quiet in the first place. I know it's easy to get on here and spout off about this and that (and I'am all for free speech)but have some respect for the people that are older and have been in this industry longer than most of you have been alive! I make a living doing what I do and I have worked and have raced for just about every atv company there is. They pay me for what I know, can anyone on this site say that?
Posted by:
quote:
Originally posted by chad duvall
just wanted to explain my actions at the wisp race
I appoligize first for being the heat of the moment reaction but you need to see the hole picture of what i had to over come to get to that point. anyways sorry for that, no it isnt my character but lately it seems that a few riders are wanting to take me out. i do have a family
and this is a family sport so i will try and refrain from this next time. if you know me in the woods and some of the other (pro-non pro) racers we joke in some manors to that way to keep it fun. this is of course still for the love and fun of the sport? any questions you may have for me is well taken and appreciate the comments but not at the expence of making this sport anymore of a political argument. i respect any and ALL racers so try and not judge me before you hear my side, i try and promote a good family atmosphere and make itwell worth my sponsors time. thank you! ps more to come on my new ride????
Welcome to the site Chad...
Posted by:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Fuller
.And by the way if you pass me I would enjoy it if you showed me I was #1 with the ole one finger salute!!
As if I would ever pass ya Bill,,,,but if I do you can bet your arse I'll give you the salute.... 
Posted by: Pappy
whats got me tore up is i want a new quad.....but cant decide if i should hold out for the new honda ive never been a yammy boy but salute them in what they are offering. from what ive seen money and expierence can overcome most flaws in any machine......but with honda id expect there to be less flaws.
welcome to the site chad....ill be sure to get pics of ya at the next race
Posted by: Cannonball08
In my opinion you should hold out for the honda, Shane Hitt told me it will be out in sept.
Chad Duvall< I met your mother working at lowes In Bridgeport WV last year. I couldn't beleive it. She is a very nice down to earth person
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
As if I would ever pass ya Bill,,,,but if I do you can bet your arse I'll give you the salute....
i felt the presence of that salute at hatfield....burning in the back of my helmut
Posted by: Doibugu2
I commend Chad for coming on here and explaining the actions. Someone posted earlier about the comparision of the basketball player to an ATV rider. I think the reason that most of us like the atv riders is because of how most people treat one another. They are always willing to help another fellow rider out.
Mickey, your well respected by those members that really know who you are. Don't let a few punk kids try and scare you off.
Posted by: cdalejef
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny_G
Chad is and always has been first class............I continue to look up to him both on and off the track!!!!
At 5'4", you look up to everyone. J/K
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
At 5'4", you look up to everyone. J/K
hahaha a stump stepper:confused2
Posted by: yellowex01
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
At 5'4", you look up to everyone. J/K
Ok now thats hitting above the belt 
Posted by: cdalejef
Monkeyboy is gonna kill me!!!
Posted by: 12gofast
quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
They pay me for what I know, can anyone on this site say that?
I believe I can. I also believe there are a few other people on this site that also work in the industry. I do know some of your history and I seemed to light a fire, my apologies, but I might not be as young and inexperienced as you may think.
Posted by: 12gofast
quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
I do'nt get anything free from the mag's.
I am not saying you get anything from the mags, my reference to the mags is they are easily influenced by money. Most mags give reviews on products based on advertising dollars and whos back pocket the editor is in. There are some honest reviews out there, but for the most part you have to take them for what they are....advertisements.
We, as people are also influenced this way......say Maxxis gives me a set of tires, I am going to give them a better review to my friends than ITP. At least thats what companies hope will happen by sponsoring a rider or team....no matter what sport it is in. They hope they get the best bang for their buck in a very professional way.
It was nice that Chad came to the site and made his statement....that was professional. Good for both him and yourself, also good for the Duvall family, as Thad is a serious up and comer.
Posted by: jlhughes750
My Opinions!!!!!! (at the moment)
I'm a Honda guy but the new Yami kicks *****. Borich was flying on his at the D6 race last weekend.
GASGAS: they gotta good thing going lets see if they can stay alive.
About Chad, he's a class act, i don't know him personelly, but in 10 years of atv racing he's probably one of the most respected racers out there.. He can flip me the Bird any day, WHO CARES!!!
Mr. Dunlap, your views are also respected but u have to remember we all know theres smart arse punks on these boards. Lets not degrade ourselves by doing what they do. Seems like there getting u all fired up. Ignore them and WOW us with your vast knowledge
So when is Chad gonna race this new ride?
Posted by: 660bigdaddy
quote:
Borich was flying on his at the D6 race last weekend.
huh, must be chris didn't read that they are no good for the woods.. btw, any pics ?
12gofast isn't a punk. i also questioned the review by micky, but respect his opinion. we will have to wait and see how good the yamaha really is...
Posted by: Dunlap
No one person lit my fire, but a few are going to get burned. Sorry but you are dead wrong about the mag guy's that I know. One I don't spend alot on advertising and two if they don't like something they will say so in the artical. I see company's that run big ad's and they don't get any more press than I do,infact they get mad because I don't run big ad's. As far as sponsor's, I don't talk good about them just because they pay me,I speak well of them because I believe in them 100%,other wise they would'nt be apart of my team.I'am sorry that I sound the way I do sometime but I have found that if you don't stick up for what you stand for than you don't stand for much.
Posted by: QuadTrix6
quote:
Originally posted by jlhughes750
My Opinions!!!!!! (at the moment)
Mr. Dunlap, your views are also respected but u have to remember we all know theres smart arse punks on these boards. Lets not degrade ourselves by doing what they do. Seems like there getting u all fired up. Ignore them and WOW us with your vast knowledge
I agree with mickey, its hard to be quiet when people attack your credability especially on a message board if you don't respond you kinda look like your the one who doesn't know what your talking about. i think that people who were excited about the new yammi or currently own a YFZ were angry because of mickey's review but i believe he is just being honest, and i respect that..maybe some of you should too
Chad : Go back to the Honda
Posted by: chad duvall
thanks for all the positive responses, i have rode the new yamaha for a very short time on my farm and so far it seems very good, a little dicy on the stearing but overall power very good. I talked to shane hitt at pyramid valley and he was pretty impressed with it, he dragged raced it against his race bike. we both agreed that it needs a stearing stabilizer. that would be a first good investment.
As far as questions about the GAS GAS i havent gotten to ride/race it yet so i will hold out for comments on that. Mickey has told me great things about it and I truely respect his opinion. As soon I am able to test some on it i will be posting my results. thanks agin!
Posted by: lt250r91
Chad,
Welcome to the board and keep us posted on your impression of the new machine.
As for what Mickey has stated about the new Yami. I have heard similar comments about the quad from others. Lazarus Sommers from GT Thunder even said that the a-arms and shocks need some work. For dynos on the Yzf check out his site. I talked to Laz about the Yzf at the race this past weekend. He already had different shocks on it and is working on adjustable upper a-arms. He said the problem is the caster angle is 0 degrees and makes the handling in stock form fall short of what it should be. My biggest clue that the yzf wasn't as good as they talked it up when I talked to Barry Hawk about it and he said it had almost 11" of travel up front. I'm sorry but if it has 9 inches it's doing go. Also Barry said for 600 buck you could get it upgraded to Ohlins but you would still have to have them sprung and valved for you.
Posted by: Joecool1264
Hey Chad, remember me I was the guy on the red 400ex at Loretta Lynns. You passed me a couple of times, remember. LOL
Posted by: cdalejef
quote:
Originally posted by Joecool1264
Hey Chad, remember me I was the guy on the red 400ex at Loretta Lynns. You passed me a couple of times, remember. LOL
I remember you......you were the one with the riding gear on, right?
Posted by: 12gofast
quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
No one person lit my fire, but a few are going to get burned. Sorry but you are dead wrong about the mag guy's that I know. One I don't spend alot on advertising and two if they don't like something they will say so in the artical.
Again you have misunderstood what I have said...I never said anything about any Mag guys you may know. I am speaking about magazines in general, very seldom will you see a magazine down play a product or manufacturer. That would be a big mistake on their part. If they do have some negative opinions they will state them in a very political way as to not lose that advertising dollar....they do not make their money on selling copy...they make their money on advertising.
I was not trying to start anything here, just giving my opinion, which is what a message board is for. I hate to see a new product bashed before it has had it time to get into the hands of the consumer, which is kind of what happened. The Yamaha will have its place, I am sure the marketing dept at Yamaha seriously studied the demographics of ATV sales before making this thing possible. Not everyone is going to like it, just like the V-Force 700 is not for everyone, but it does have its place. Lets just get a few more opinions before we throw this quad in the sh*tter.
As for your statement of some of us are going to get burned....thats not very proffesional, but thanks for the warning.
Posted by: 12gofast
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
I remember you......you were the one with the riding gear on, right?
Thanks Jeff for breaking the ice....quick wits for a quick guy! lol
Posted by: Dunlap
First of all, I was asked my opinion on the Yamaha by two different people and I gave it. I don't remember asking your opinion about my opinion. You started cutting on me saying I am only saying good things about the Gas Gas because they are giving me one (which they haven't). You attack my reputation, my motives and then you give your opinion and it's supposed to count and mine isn't. Go back and read over all the posts. I was on here minding my own business giving answers to people who asked me questions and then you get on here and attack me so what do you think I am going to do? Think before you post.
Posted by: QuadTrix6
quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
First of all, I was asked my opinion on the Yamaha by two different people and I gave it. I don't remember asking your opinion about my opinion. You started cutting on me saying I am only saying good things about the Gas Gas because they are giving me one (which they haven't). You attack my reputation, my motives and then you give your opinion and it's supposed to count and mine isn't. Go back and read over all the posts. I was on here minding my own business giving answers to people who asked me questions and then you get on here and attack me so what do you think I am going to do? Think before you post.
right on mickey!!, hey are you going to be answering anymore questions like you did a ways back, that was a lot of good info and i learned a lot, it would be cool if you could do that again for us in the future...
Posted by: 12gofast
quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
You started cutting on me saying I am only saying good things about the Gas Gas because they are giving me one (which they haven't). You attack my reputation, my motives and then you give your opinion and it's supposed to count and mine isn't. Go back and read over all the posts. I was on here minding my own business giving answers to people who asked me questions and then you get on here and attack me so what do you think I am going to do? Think before you post.
Once again you have misconstrued what I have said....never once did I say you received a free Gas Gas nor did I ever attack you or your reputation. You have been the one that has called names, made threats, and attacked reputations. Sorry I stepped on your tail Mr. Mickey Dunlap, I will leave it at that.
Posted by: ex kid
my opinion. shut up 12goslow, dunlap is the most respected four stroke engine/quad builder on the gncc circut. that is a fact. i too and am a honda guy ,but at the time the gas gas seems to be the hot ticket. its race ready and works best for chad duvall. thats what he likes and what hes probably going to win on so give it a rest.
Posted by: Dunlap
Quadtrix6 I told Ben I would answer a few questions a month if you want to send them to me but I asked him if he would wait to later on this year because I am extremely busy getting the race team up and going and doing 4 magazine articles at the first of this year. I have some really good tips on how to keep 400EX head gaskets from blowing (especially 440's) so if you want to word that into a question and send it to Ben then he can send it to me and I will answer it. To the rest of you who support me, I thank you very much. I don't plan on going anywhere and I am not going to let a few people run me off because of their ignorance.
Posted by: Pappy
HEY MICKEY.....i forgive ya on the beer ya owe me
im in training so its a gatorade now
Posted by: jshtex
Mickey, thanks for you support. I think a lot of us would be interested in the head gasket info.
Posted by: Dunlap
Thanks Pappy - I was feeling a little guilty. You know how I hate to be on somebody's bad side.
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
Thanks Pappy - I was feeling a little guilty. You know how I hate to be on somebody's bad side.
lol....hell dude...you tell chad to point out who he wants to get flipped off....ill handle it for him lmfao
Posted by: jlhughes750
Hey Pappy, thanks for joining in!! Yeah, u quit drinking and i quit smoking, now i know Honda must be coming out with something new..or we'll be ice skating in heII!!!
I know it was off topic but most of this post is anyway. i hope Mickey doesn't get mad at me!!! hahahahe seems to have a short fuse
tesy,testy, 1--2--......3???
hahaha
later, J
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
No one person lit my fire, but a few are going to get burned. Sorry but you are dead wrong about the mag guy's that I know. One I don't spend alot on advertising and two if they don't like something they will say so in the artical. I see company's that run big ad's and they don't get any more press than I do,infact they get mad because I don't run big ad's. As far as sponsor's, I don't talk good about them just because they pay me,I speak well of them because I believe in them 100%,other wise they would'nt be apart of my team.I'am sorry that I sound the way I do sometime but I have found that if you don't stick up for what you stand for than you don't stand for much.
I wount go back and re read this whole thread, but what I thought the mag review comment was really about is how they (the writers/editors) seem to write things in a manner to confuse the reader when there is a concern with a product from a larger advertiser.
Remember when the first reviews for the Z400 were in all the mags? The wording in dirt liars alone was beyond humerous. The when the so called shoot out comparisons got to into print it made the reviews look timid.
For those with the time go back and see how they (dirt wheels) hid all the negative info on the Suzuki. Look real hard its there. Then at the end of it all they count up all their info and then somehow figure a way to make the "new" machine some sort of winner even though the testing proved otherwise.
BTW Mickey I dont think you need to worry about defending youself as much and I know many members here respect your opinions (wheather they agree or not LOL) and honestly I for one prefer to hear it straight and dont want it watered down.
This site is visited by so many people in this industry and though just a handfull post here (well at least who state who they are since there are a couple dont) and though it can get heated at times its threads like this one that make it all worth while.
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
Quadtrix6 I told Ben I would answer a few questions a month if you want to send them to me but I asked him if he would wait to later on this year because I am extremely busy getting the race team up and going and doing 4 magazine articles at the first of this year. I have some really good tips on how to keep 400EX head gaskets from blowing (especially 440's) so if you want to word that into a question and send it to Ben then he can send it to me and I will answer it. To the rest of you who support me, I thank you very much. I don't plan on going anywhere and I am not going to let a few people run me off because of their ignorance.
Think you could address that one "good tip" before the end of the season, or sooner
Thanx
Posted by: lt250r91
Mickey or Chad any new info on the 450?
Chad have you got to ride it yet? If so what do you think?
Keep us posted.
Mickey,
Lazarus is installing a 250r radiator in mine to get rid of that cheezy radiator cap and to help the quad run cooler with the larger rad. Also have you found any one making rear sprockets for the quad yet that aren't aluminum? If so who. I need to switch to something that will hold up better.
Thanks
Mike
Posted by: AndreS
i'm also curious about the same things..
how are those W.C. A-arms working out?
also, how's the install of the GPR stabilizer going?
Posted by: Dunlap
Chad hasn't got to ride the quad yet - I still have it. When we put the other A-arms on there, we moved the bottom shock mount in 3" which required us to go stiffer on the front springs. They should be here this week. The GPR will be here on Friday so we should be able to ride it this weekend. As far as rear sprockets go, you can have them hard annondized or I was even thinking of trying to have them chromed to see if that lasts even longer. No one makes a steel one.
Posted by: lt250r91
Thanks for the info Mickey. Keep us posted. Also have you talked to the guys at Patriot Sprocket about having a rear sprocket made up out of an alloy? I talked to them awhile back and he was interested in making some up for the quad. Me or my dealer just haven't sent him a sprocket yet to use as a template.
Looking forward to seeing Chad on the machine.
Mike
Posted by: ranger400ex
The hard anodizing is a good way to go. We have parts done around here with "personal" items for a good price. @ $75 batch. Really nice stuff, does hold up well to abuse, haven't tried a sprocket, but think I might throw one in the next batch to see how it does. I had a couple frame parts on the dale done, and they are holding up well. Anyone think to talk to sidewinder?
ben
Posted by: cdalejef
quote:
Originally posted by ranger400ex
The hard anodizing is a good way to go. We have parts done around here with "personal" items for a good price. @ $75 batch. Really nice stuff, does hold up well to abuse, haven't tried a sprocket, but think I might throw one in the next batch to see how it does. I had a couple frame parts on the dale done, and they are holding up well. Anyone think to talk to sidewinder?
ben
Where is my chit!!!!!
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Where is my chit!!!!!
squeeze real hard you will find it
Posted by: cdalejef
Posted by: monkeyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Where is my chit!!!!!
i wannt sum 2
Posted by: Pappy
a bit O/T but im gonna play around with parkerizing some parts. the military uses it exclusively. i imagine on sprockets and axles it will out last any other finish. ofcourse its a really dull color but if its protection not perty then im sure it will work
Posted by: jlhughes750
sounds interesting Pappy please elaborate!!!
tell us more please!!!!!
Posted by: Pappy
well the military wanted a finish it could apply to almost any metal. i dont know if it was developed by or for the miltary but any way they have been using it since the middle of world war 1. its a very simple dip and drip process and leaves the metal coated with an almost indestructable rust preventative finish. most of the colors ive seen range form a very dark greenish color to almost black. its not a fashion statement for sure but if they can recover rifles 50 years after they were dropped in the ocean and they aint rusted id say it works
closest example would be the cannondale axle. i cant say they were parkerized but the color and texture were almost an exact match
Posted by: Ryan
Hey Mickey, Great info. I heard you say you were working on a few articals for one of the ATV mags..... Let us know when it comes out!
Chad, welcome aboard! I hope to see you posting here often.
Posted by: exriderdude
quote:
Originally posted by Pappy
well the military wanted a finish it could apply to almost any metal. i dont know if it was developed by or for the miltary but any way they have been using it since the middle of world war 1. its a very simple dip and drip process and leaves the metal coated with an almost indestructable rust preventative finish. most of the colors ive seen range form a very dark greenish color to almost black. its not a fashion statement for sure but if they can recover rifles 50 years after they were dropped in the ocean and they aint rusted id say it works
closest example would be the cannondale axle. i cant say they were parkerized but the color and texture were almost an exact match
is that gonna help a sprocket last longer
Posted by: lt250r91
I've already talked to sidewinder. Their answer was aluminum only for now so their out.
Other question for someone (little off the current topic). I'm going to pick up the GG in abit and Lazarus at GT Thunder said I need to run higher pressure radiator hoses on it. Well I've been to Napa, Autozone, advance auto and Jegs, none carry the material I need. I've seen 250r's with built engines and larger aftermarket rad. that have different hose. What is it and where can I get it is my question?
Thanks for the help gotten go get the quad and get it ready for a TT race saturday later.
Mike
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by exriderdude
is that gonna help a sprocket last longer
yes..1 zillion times longer
Posted by: exriderdude
quote:
Originally posted by Pappy
yes..1 zillion times longer
but its just a rust protectent right?? its not gonna make the metal any harder will it??
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by exriderdude
but its just a rust protectent right?? its not gonna make the metal any harder will it??
no...its basically a protectant. hard anodizing will strengthen aluminum.
im just sick and tired of rust on a $20,000 quad
Posted by: (KN)GNCC91
This is great, as if the new yamaha didn't fire me up. I wanna go back to some of the old topics here. I have been in and out of gncc since mid 90's and now would be the absolute best time to be in.If you can get about 30 days a year off,practice 3 days a week,have about 10 grand to blow on top of the quad cost this is the sport for you. I'll just get right to the point, Chad is a class act, if your Mickey Dunlap you don't need to find respect on this message board, the opinions on the yfz all seem to coincide. I toke a very short ride on one and I have been riding around in my work truck looking at a brochure like it's the latest issue of playboy,and that was 3 weeks ago. I have come to grips that I will need to sell 2 ex's b-4 purchase. All of a sudden my 400 is starting to look like a atc 70 to me, the sick part is I think I would have no problem beating the 450.Don't qoute me on this, even though I said yami 450/hawk involvement last year, Honda will prevail, don't be surprised to see a low emmission power valve R,and a 650 based on the xr with liquid cooling. Hard-Core! Kevin Nolder
Posted by: exriderdude
quote:
Originally posted by (KN)GNCC91
don't be surprised to see a low emmission power valve R,and a 650 based on the xr with liquid cooling.
well the R would be sweet, but i dunno about the 650, but as long as they come out with both it would be all cool
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
I never realized what the angry face looked like till this thread, but dont squeeze that hard you will get hemoriods
Posted by: chad duvall
KN(gncc91) Thanks for your post. I will be trying out the Gas Gas this weekend will post my results from that. Yesterday my machanic rode the YZF 450 all stoke, for a friend of ours to see about the suspenion. He came back with his eyes as big as coffee cans! He said it had alot of power and is actually ready to buy one! There of course was some cons low steering stem, tie rod ends and little dicy steering. This isnt really anything that a racer wouldnt have to change any other time. I also feel like you that Honda will to privale! Rumor has it, just hear say! Look for an updated test results on the GAS GAS!
thanks!
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by exriderdude
well the R would be sweet, but i dunno about the 650, but as long as they come out with both it would be all cool
If they put the xr650 engine into the "right" chassis then you may be pleasently suprised. This engine does produce plenty of power and doesnt have any of the heat issues that the xr/ex 400 engine does when modded.
Then again the whole idea of a new R is allways going to get attention.
Posted by: cdalejef
quote:
Originally posted by 440EX4me
If they put the xr650 engine into the "right" chassis then you may be pleasently suprised. This engine does produce plenty of power and doesnt have any of the heat issues that the xr/ex 400 engine does when modded.
Actually, that engine does have overheating problems!!! I used to work for Scott Summers and that engine is designed for desert racing not eastern type trails. It takes extensive mods to be ridable in the woods. The motor is also extremly heavy!!! It would not be a good choice for quads unless it goes through some serious changes.
Posted by: (KN)GNCC91
I'm just going on bits and pieces from some reliable sources. I did hear something that really made sense,when Honda releases a quad you don't see them make major changes year to year. Remember Honda released the 400 b-4 anything was going on. There going to get it right the first time. I don't think you will see them slap together a 450 for a late october release,because one doesn't exist.I'm sure there is something that has been proto typed but I would be way more inclined to believe they have a 6 something on the plate, based on the beefy XR bottom end but a new engine. It's nearly a fact that the low emmision R based engine exist, and if they wanted to rock the atv world like yamaha just did, they would drop a bomb with that bad boy. That's the way Honda seems to operate.
Chad,I hope the new ride works well for you. The only thing that scares me about the yamaha is the a-arms, I'm sure the rest of it can be tweaked in no time, my buddy Tom Carlson says he can get some low end out of it. All this hype sure will fire a guy up, man I hope I get back to the gncc next year.KN
Posted by: lt250r91
quote:
Originally posted by chad duvall
KN(gncc91) I will be trying out the Gas Gas this weekend will post my results from that. Look for an updated test results on the GAS GAS!
thanks!
So Chad did you get some seat time on the GG over the weekend? If so please fill us in on your impression of it. Thanks
By the way I talked to Shane Hitt this past weekend at the GNC TT race @ Pine Lake. Super nice guy and he truely owns the TT track. I can't see anyone beating him. I tried the TT thing myself on the GG 300. Quad set-up is like 90% of TT racing I learned the hard way. Missed qualify for the main because of gearing.
Keep us posted on the status of the GasGas and your thoughs or even any new info on this Honda everone is talking about, but no one knows anything definite.
Mike
Posted by: Johnny_G
quote:
Originally posted by (KN)GNCC91
I don't think you will see them slap together a 450 for a late october release,because one doesn't exist.
Wanna make a freindly wager
Posted by: Bart
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny_C
Wanna make a friendly wager
How would you know anything about what Honda is up to? Everyone knows that Suzuki already has you in their back pocket.
Posted by: Joecool1264
Does anyone else remember someone from honda motor corp. being quoted in Dirtwheels saying "If you think 2-strokes are through you don't work at honda".It was before the 400ex was released, I don't think I dreamed it. Anyone?
Posted by: Smokey
I was told at the Wisp by a guy who said he works for Honda , that they are going to release a new sport quad sometime this fall. Take that for what its worth .
Here is something to think about though , do you think that Honda will give anyone any kind of support ??? They dont for motorcycles unless you are one hell of a motocrosser . I know that guys who ride Honda's at the GNCC's (Doug Blackwell being one) dont get help from Honda they get the help from a shop that is willing to help as much as they can . If the new Yamaha 450 takes off like I think it might , you could see the YZ Bucks program for the 450 . Now that would be better than Honda, Kawi, Or Suzuki is or most likely ever do . I know there is alot of people that have put it down but I know a Pro GNCC rider that thinks its awsome ....and for that matter ask Barry Hawk what he thinks of it and if he would want one . I know the answer do you ??
Posted by: popo
quote:
Originally posted by Fred
How would you know anything about what Honda is up to? Everyone knows that Suzuki already has you in their back pocket.
I think the boy has been racing since the age of 5. So I think that qualifies him to know a little about whats going on.
And I don't see Suzuki sharing anything out there back pocket!
Posted by: cdalejef
quote:
Originally posted by Smokey
I was told at the Wisp by a guy who said he works for Honda , that they are going to release a new sport quad sometime this fall. Take that for what its worth .
Here is something to think about though , do you think that Honda will give anyone any kind of support ??? They dont for motorcycles unless you are one hell of a motocrosser . I know that guys who ride Honda's at the GNCC's (Doug Blackwell being one) dont get help from Honda they get the help from a shop that is willing to help as much as they can . If the new Yamaha 450 takes off like I think it might , you could see the YZ Bucks program for the 450 . Now that would be better than Honda, Kawi, Or Suzuki is or most likely ever do . I know there is alot of people that have put it down but I know a Pro GNCC rider that thinks its awsome ....and for that matter ask Barry Hawk what he thinks of it and if he would want one . I know the answer do you ??
I know that Scott Summers will be racing again next season for team Honda as a factory rider. I seriously doubt they will field quad team yet!
Posted by: Johnny_G
quote:
Originally posted by Fred
How would you know anything about what Honda is up to?
Even if I did know which I may or may not.....I couldn't say anything.
But I could speculate that they may, and it may be a 440 just like the Yamaha............................Or maybe not
Posted by: cdalejef
Stop teasing!!!
Posted by: TheChknhwk
quote:
Originally posted by chad duvall
just wanted to explain my actions at the wisp race
I appoligize first for being the heat of the moment reaction but you need to see the hole picture of what i had to over come to get to that point. anyways sorry for that, no it isnt my character but lately it seems that a few riders are wanting to take me out. i do have a family
and this is a family sport so i will try and refrain from this next time. if you know me in the woods and some of the other (pro-non pro) racers we joke in some manors to that way to keep it fun. this is of course still for the love and fun of the sport? any questions you may have for me is well taken and appreciate the comments but not at the expence of making this sport anymore of a political argument. i respect any and ALL racers so try and not judge me before you hear my side, i try and promote a good family atmosphere and make itwell worth my sponsors time. thank you! ps more to come on my new ride????
What a stand up guy; please come back & see us again sometime soon.
Posted by: quadman21
I think it's kind of funny that since the Fall is approaching us more rapidly, Many threads are ending up on the topic of the new Honda. This one for instance started about Chad's new ride. I guess it's proof that no matter what the new Honda will be, we all have our opinions of what it will be, and all of us equally cannot wait for it any longer!
Posted by: (KN)GNCC91
I hope I'm wrong and it is the 450 everyone wants. They are spilling the news in november. Wasn't it already said a 600 something,I'm really not sure on that, seems like if the had a 450 it would have to be in production right now to make early 2004,and it would be almost impossible to keep that a secret.It's fun to speculate,I guess will wait and see.KN
Posted by: Smokey
I just wanted to say Thanks to Teufel , just to let you know how tight GNCC racers are . I was at the Bucc's race today and since you pointed out the finger thing at the Wisp , on Chad's last lap today EVERYONE down pit row was flipping him off as he went by ...Now its the joke of the GNCC series . Thanks for starting something new .....All of us that knows Chad knows thats nnot him but on the track we are all differant and now Thanks to you other racers have read what you post and it is a big joke for us all .
Posted by: chad duvall
hey guys sorry i havent gotten back to you, been a few hectic weeks. Yes new things and testing also getttin my boy ready for his season return. Yes I have been testing, I rode the GAS GAS seem to be a really good machine but we still have some issues to go over with them. We are working with them to get the bike lowered and at a full Pro race level. Overall the control is nice and seems to be a pretty predictable bike and very comfortable to ride.
As some of you seen this past weekend if you were at a District 11 race I also am testing the YZF450 and yes I really like this race quad. It to has a few issues but overall this is a great out of the crate quad. We had this test bike set up with my spnsored ELKA shocks and HOUSER A-arms and all I can say is WOW!
Any questions you may have I will try and get back to you at a later time. Thanks
Posted by: Pappy
chad....what do you think its gonna take to make the yzf ready for GNCC racing?
Posted by: chad duvall
First of all I thank Mickey and Mike for getting this quad ready for me to test this past weekend they did a great job. Pappy it depends on how much you want to spend and time put in to it. But realisticly, Good tires(Maxxis) a taller steering stem(Houser raptor plus 2), Good Bars, stronger tierod ends, will get you at a great race level.
Then there would be the ever ending list of extra goodies. But overall it is race ready and this is what my overall goal for the new Pro Production class and 4 stroke switch was intended for with the help of Mickey and Four stroke tech we may soon see a future of 4 stroke overalls! Hope I answered your question pappy, Mickey may have a few other helpful hints. Thanks
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by Smokey
I just wanted to say Thanks to Teufel , just to let you know how tight GNCC racers are . I was at the Bucc's race today and since you pointed out the finger thing at the Wisp , on Chad's last lap today EVERYONE down pit row was flipping him off as he went by ...Now its the joke of the GNCC series . Thanks for starting something new .....All of us that knows Chad knows thats nnot him but on the track we are all differant and now Thanks to you other racers have read what you post and it is a big joke for us all .
Thats about the funniest thing I have heard.
The only thing that could top it would be some pics, c'mon someone had to have one.
Posted by: quadman21
Hey Chad, you and Mickey mentioned testing the Gas Gas and now the YFZ. Would it be safe to say you will be testing the new Honda later this fall for next year? I guess it might seem as a "no brainer" but I ask because I am curious if you still want to stick with a Honda based machine which you have ridden since the days of Barry Hawk. I was just thinking that the Gas Gas and YFZ were alternative choices because of Honda waiting so long to release their race machine.
Posted by: Teufel
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Smokey
I just wanted to say Thanks to Teufel , just to let you know how tight GNCC racers are . I was at the Bucc's race today and since you pointed out the finger thing at the Wisp , on Chad's last lap today EVERYONE down pit row was flipping him off as he went by ...Now its the joke of the GNCC series . Thanks for starting something new .....All of us that knows Chad knows thats nnot him but on the track we are all differant and now Thanks to you other racers have read what you post and it is a big joke for us all . [/QUOTE
Your Welcome !!!!!!!
Posted by: Dunlap
Yes we will have a new Honda soon but we are trying to get a little more speed for the rest of the season.
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
Yes we will have a new Honda soon but we are trying to get a little more speed for the rest of the season.
Should we take that to mean the modded 500cc engine just cant keep up or that your looking for more of an advantage?
Posted by: (KN)GNCC91
I hate going back to read my post, I know I have to eat crow afterwards. I'm very excited to see the Honda, I'm still hyped on the yami, but I have always been on Honda and have lots of Honda parts, I will wait for there quad. I'm glad I didn't have the cash handy when yami came out. No one is talking about suzuki, I was at TC's today and they were getting ready for Loretta's. Want to talk about a hot quad, they had a brand new Z for Gust decked out with all Roll's products, Elkas and whole slew of other goodies, I don't think you can get much more competive than that.
Posted by: imac
Just a little info about chads yfz and all yfz's in general. Chad had to go up hill on really wet grass while others were on level or even downhill grass and or mud, he got the holeshot (I think). Anyway d11 is fairly competitive I think and since the release of the yfz a guy got third on a basically stock one. At the next race a different guy on a yfz won. At the last race where Chad was at Im pretty sure there were 4 yfz's, one guy got hurt early on and didnt finish well but the other three took the top three spots(again I think/ about 90% sure). Anyway I have a Z and it took some money and time to get used to. I have not seen stock Z's finish very well. This yfz is getting off to a VERY GOOD START! I know that rider has a lot to do with racing but this last race was after a severe downpoor and conditions were very tough with ample oportunity for a good rider to get screwed. I think that for the yfz to take the top three spots says a lot about the quad also.
Posted by: Dunlap
Hopfully in the weeks to come we will get some track time in on the GasGAS,YFZ470 and the 500ex and do some lap times with all the team riders so we can make the best decision on which works best for all the riders.
Posted by: Wild_Dez
Nice??? is that all you can say about it now? i have been checking up on this messsage board for ages now to see what a pro rider like chad would say about the GG 450 and to see is nice was a bit disappointing. I am English living in spain and have had the Gas Gas 450 since march (1 of first GG450 sold in spain) and think the quad is amazing. But Gas Gas still hasnt got a good rider to race it in the National races here. They have a good rider on there Gas Gas 240 in limited production under 250 and he is only 2 seconds slower than the guys in unlimited production. Also as long as you can get the 450 to not over heat so much the engine has so much power for a stock quad. Gas Gas also entered in tarrega 12 hour Resistance with a 500 version and was leading until mechanical problems. I am sure the GG450 with a good rider and a good team can kick ***. good luck chad, hope to see more posts on what you think of GG450 soon. and if possible to post some more pics of Dunlaps loverly work he done on that GG would be NICE.
Gas Gas 450 wild
Banshee lotta xtras
Trailblazer (G/F)
Adly Fox (daughter)
Posted by: jcv400ex
quote:
Originally posted by (KN)GNCC91
I hate going back to read my post, I know I have to eat crow afterwards. I'm very excited to see the Honda, I'm still hyped on the yami, but I have always been on Honda and have lots of Honda parts, I will wait for there quad. I'm glad I didn't have the cash handy when yami came out. No one is talking about suzuki, I was at TC's today and they were getting ready for Loretta's. Want to talk about a hot quad, they had a brand new Z for Gust decked out with all Roll's products, Elkas and whole slew of other goodies, I don't think you can get much more competive than that.
Bout time he finally got that thing going. It was still in stock form and in the way the last couple of weeks. How about those A-Arms!? Are they not a work of art?!
Posted by: ranger400ex
Good to see that "Dales" will no longer be out of the Pro-Production class...........
Gives GG, Honda, Suz/Kaw something to chase after...again.
Ben
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by ranger400ex
Good to see that "Dales" will no longer be out of the Pro-Production class...........
Gives GG, Honda, Suz/Kaw something to chase after...again.
Ben
The Dale is still the only non Honda quad I gave any serious thought to, and I dont think the newbies are in the same class though they are still in business unlike cannondale.
Posted by: cdalejef
quote:
Originally posted by 440EX4me
The Dale is still the only non Honda quad I gave any serious thought to, and I dont think the newbies are in the same class though they are still in business unlike cannondale.
Don't count your chickens before they are hatched!
Posted by: markeg192
This has prolly been the best thread I've seen on here. It has lots of info from guys who know what they're talking about. Thanks and keep posting!
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Don't count your chickens before they are hatched!
I seriously hope you are correct on this one.
Posted by: jcv400ex
quote:
Originally posted by 440EX4me
I seriously hope you are correct on this one.
It's true.
Posted by: Bill Fuller
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Don't count your chickens before they are hatched!
Spread the word brother and fess up to what you know or maybe just a teny tiny hint
Posted by: jcv400ex
Bill,
The ball is rollin, things are in the works. We'll know exactly what is going to happen by the end of the month. Everyone is just saying "It's real good news".
Posted by: bradley300
quote:
Originally posted by jcv400ex
Bill,
The ball is rollin, things are in the works. We'll know exactly what is going to happen by the end of the month. Everyone is just saying "It's real good news".
anyone want to buy a 350ex?
Posted by: Dunlap
Bultaco is coming out with a new quad called "Pursang MK ll .
Posted by: jcv400ex
quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
Bultaco is coming out with a new quad called "Pursang MK ll .
And I'm sure you'll be the first to modify it! FST Pursang 750......
Posted by: ranger400ex
the new beginning is near..no rumor..no bs....I know who is riding the first production unit come Sept.....lucky focker...at least he will do so on a spanking new wiring harness....lighter even........
" "450, giving the competition something to chase.....TM
Ben
PS We just got our new GG 450's and a 300 last night...I am planning to go rip a 450 up on sunday w Keith. We received the first unit of the 300, and the 450 to hit the states back when they started...Keith decided to try em out again, hopefully they will take better than the Husky quad we still have...from a couple years back. awesome motor....poor application...and no parts. The GG seems to have improved...but still leary on parts issues again, along with durability(and D$mn...how wide are the trails in Spain??? ) the +100" a-arms and axle gotta go. The dale will always be 1st in my book, and will continue to raise the bar for the others as they are brought back into production, but the GG might give something for the wife to ride instead of the Z....can you say dealer trade in!!
Posted by: bradley300
c'mon, give us the whole scoop, i know you know it. i think i know who the rider is, but will he be on a CANNONDALE, or is this a new company making the cannondale machine w/ a new name? details! or your gettin kikked!
Posted by: YamaWarr0121
quote:
Originally posted by bradley300
c'mon, give us the whole scoop, i know you know it. i think i know who the rider is, but will he be on a CANNONDALE, or is this a new company making the cannondale machine w/ a new name? details! or your gettin kikked!
uh huh if not someones gonna be getting some calls very soon to find out exactly wtf is going on here!
Posted by: chad duvall
MR SPAIN, SORRY IT SOUNDED LIKE I DIDNT LIKE THE GAS GAS. I DIDNT WANT ANYONE TO BE DISAPPOINTED IN WHAT MY THOUGHTS ON IT WAS. IT IS A GOOD MACHINE AND WOULD MOSTLY WORK FOR A GOOD RIDER BUT JUST NOT QUIT PRO LEVEL JUST YET. HOPEFULLY WITH OUR TESTING IT, IT WILL BE READY FOR A PRO LEVEL IN THE SEASONS TO COME! OVER HEATING WAS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WE HAD BUT LIKE I SAID TEST AND DEVELOPEMENT WILL COME TO ITS GOOD. PLEASE ANYONE TAKE NOTE, MOST OF MY PRO CAREER HAS BEEN ON AFTER MARKET CUSTOM MADE MACHINES. IT TAKES ME A WHILE TO GET USE TO CHANGE.
AS FOR THE QUESTION OF THE 500 NOT BEING ENOUGH ANYMORE, IT HAS BEEN A GREAT MACHINE BUT WITH ALL THE NEW MACHINES BEING TESTED AND DEVELOPED I HAVE THE NEED TO ALSO KEEP UP WITH THE COMPITION!
THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WITH YOUR POST!
Posted by: popo
quote:
Originally posted by bradley300
c'mon, give us the whole scoop, i know you know it. i think i know who the rider is, but will he be on a CANNONDALE, or is this a new company making the cannondale machine w/ a new name? details! or your gettin kikked!
It's an ETON. 448CC, with a Holley carb. Could also say Harley or Buell on it.
Posted by: 440EX4me
quote:
Originally posted by popo
It's an ETON. 448CC, with a Holley carb. Could also say Harley or Buell on it.
Now this is one of those things that make you go hmmmmmm
quote:
FOR THE QUESTION OF THE 500 NOT BEING ENOUGH ANYMORE, IT HAS BEEN A GREAT MACHINE BUT WITH ALL THE NEW MACHINES BEING TESTED AND DEVELOPED I HAVE THE NEED TO ALSO KEEP UP WITH THE COMPITION!
I figured the potential of the newer engines and machines in general would surpass that of the EX once everything is on a even plane basis or compared apples to apples but I would also have thought that the 500ex (especially with all the testing and development by FST) would handle the new stuff untill that same effort was put into the newer engines etc.
Thanx for you input as it is very valued.
Posted by: Dunlap
The YFZ will be a 470cc,we don't just want to keep up we want to be ahead of the compition.This is the time of year we start getting ready for next year to find out what works and what does not work.
Posted by: TheChknhwk
Kind of off topic, but does anyone know if/when this year's GNCC's will be televised, or if we can buy the series on dvd/video? That would be sweet *** to buy the series on dvd, have a race menu and just pick which one to watch.. sigh..
Posted by: quadman21
You guys have me a little confused The thread started as "Chad duvall's new quad" by lt250r. There was a link to GG that had a picture of the 450 stating Chad would be riding it. But now it seems he'll be on a 470 yammi for the remainder of this season? I ask because at the beginning of this thread Mickey said he didn't really like the yammi and favored the GG. But chad has said he likes the yammi more? Will Chad ride what he feels is the best for him and what he feels he can win on? or ride what FST provides him? BTW Chad, good luck with the rest of the season!
Posted by: Dunlap
One of the biggest leasons I have learned being a team manager over the past years, is that it doesn't matter what I like, it's what the rider likes, whether it's better or not. If they have it in their mind that one exhaust works better than the other or if shocks, tires, etc. work better, that's what they are going to run. Bottom line, whatever it takes to win.
Posted by: Admin
quote:
it doesn't matter what I like, it's what the rider likes, whether it's better or not. If they have it in their mind that one exhaust works better than the other or if shocks, tires, etc. work better, that's what they are going to run.
Mickey, I agree with you 100%. Mentally races can be won or lost before they even start! If a racer has doubts about what he is riding, then more than likely its going to affect the race results because the conifidence won't be there.
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by EXriders Admin
Mickey, I agree with you 100%. Mentally races can be won or lost before they even start! If a racer has doubts about what he is riding, then more than likely its going to affect the race results because the conifidence won't be there.
you mean its starting to sink in
Posted by: lt250r91
I've know Chad for a couple season (5 or so) and I meet Mickey for the first time at Wisp this year and from I want I've talked to Chad and other racers about Chad's 500ex and also what Chad and Mickey have personally told me about each of the machines that Chad is testing. This is what my views on the whole thing are.
First off the 500ex that Chad is currently on. Yes the engine tech is out of date, but I think with the way Mickey is building it the engine is still very competive with all the other pro-production quads and can win at any given time. I think the Ex's biggest down fall is the stock frame geometry and shock linkage. Chad mmade a comment to me at one of the races this year that the suspension just beats him up at times and at one race he was chasing Yokely and watch Yokely's Z take the bumps with out the rear end kicking up like the ex does. Remember the engine alone doesn't win races it the complete package.
Onto the YFZ. I've talked to different people about this quad, everyone seems to really like it and says it acts like a 2-stroke on how the mid range power has a hit to it. Chad also said something to me about liking that about it over the ex and the GasGas. Most people agree though that the quad needs some attention to the suspension and a-arms. What quad on the market doesn't need the suspension dialed in off the showroom. Also one thing most people my not know about Chad and his relationship with Yamaha. One his boy is a Yamie sponsor rider (don't know the details, but that he rides one and Yamie helps to some extent). Also when the Raptor was released Chad was offer a contract to race it. Things didn't work out. So with all this plus Chad also talks with Barry Hawk a little to. I can see way Chad is testing the YZF out.
Now for the GasGas quad. From what I've gather from Chad about this quad he has put very little time on it so he is able to give a full opinion of it. I know he didn't like the stance of the machine. The shocks needed to have a little more sag (ZPS style). The overheating issue has been a problem on the early release models and GasGas is still working of fixing it. Not sure about the oil line thing. Chad did say he liked the handling and how smooth the engine, but he'd like to see a mid-range hit like the YZF. This could be done by remapping the fuel injection (gotta love the fuel injection).
All in All Like Mickey said it all comes down to which machine Chad feels he can run the fastest times on (or which manufacture give him a full ride). I don't think you'll see Chad on a different machine this year, he feels very comfortable on the 500 and why switch when your in a points battle and fighting for a national number. You might see him test the different machines out at local (d-11) races though. Last weekend I guess he raced the YZF at COCR. Whichever quad Chad is on next season he will be fighting for the #1 plate and don't count out the new Honda.
Hey Mickey Chad said he couldn't find the rev limiter on the GasGas. Whats the deal with that? I heard you had to show him where it was.
What is the rev limit of the 450?
I know the 300 is 11,000 and I got the dyno to provide.
Mike
Posted by: chad duvall
the question you had about being confused about my new ride, I really never said if I would be on anything else. Mike has a point about my chasing the points and a national number, but at this time of testing the YZF is a sure canidate next to my 500. I guess I wont even really know till Sept. 6th. As for Thad(my son) YES he is a Yamaha sponsored rider and has many advantages, his team manager is Randy Hawkins and his team mates are Barry Hawk and Jason Raines but it really has no decision on what I feel comfortable on to race. If that was the case I may have been on that race team a few years past on a Blaster....HA HA HA! Seriously I am still testing and I am really enjoying this last half of the break. FYI..If you are serious about buy a new quad take some time to research what companies focus on these new machines and what works for you.
Hope to see you all at the Sept 6th reopener of the GNCC!
Posted by: Wild_Dez
Mickey is there any chance of any more photos of that amazing Gas Gas? and also where can i get carbon fibre front end like in photo on www.gasgasatv.com cause it looks sooooo sexy, only thing it needs now is chad sittin on it!! Keep up the good work Mickey and good luck.
P.s. Gas Gas Wild 450 got the quickest time in spanish baja de Aragon Driven by Victor Puig. Although punctures stopped hm from winning.
Posted by: Dunlap
Just to give you a brief update on where we are at on testing, this past Sunday the race team met at an undisclosed track with the east coast rep from Gas Gas and several other cross country participants. We had several different machines there including the Gas Gas 450, YFZ 450, 500EX, Raptors, etc. To make it short and sweet, the majority of the riders that rode the Gas Gas said it had the best handling and smoothest ride of all the machines. They liked the YFZ but most complained that they wouldn't be able to ride a 2 hour race with that type of power. The Gas Gas has similar characteristics as far as the power goes but is not as abrupt as the YFZ. Both machines will be getting big bore kits in about the 470 range to give them more torque to enable them to run in a taller gear without shifting as much in the woods. The 500EX is the favorite as far as the easy to ride motor and is still a good overall handling machine despite it's outdated suspension setup (mostly the rear end linkage). For most riders the 500EX has the power to run up front without wearing the rider out and is still favored by everyone that rides it. I believe as we build the motors on the YFZ and the Gas Gas, they will excel over the 500EX especially for the faster riders that are in better shape. We don't know who will be riding what when we go back to racing but I can guarantee you the whole team is going to be faster.
Posted by: bradley300
hey mickey, just out of curiosity, what motor are you running in the sport class 300ex? thats my class and that thing looks nice!, just wondering.
Posted by: Dunlap
It's are 330cc kit,and you can read about it in 4wheel atv action soon.
Posted by: 440EX4me
Great input.
This is getting real interesting now
Cant wait to see what Honda throws into the mix! and you guys test everythings true potential for all of us
I have to admit that it was both interesting and exciting to watch the 500ex chasing down or leading all the aftermarket framed 2 smoke pro class machines, and I know I will miss that.
Posted by: cinigen9
for those that follow the gncc, I have a question:
why dont you see more hondas in the bike ranks?
I dont have much experience with off road dirt bikes, so is the yzf/yfz powerplant better suited in a bike chassis, or is it a sponsor issue, or maybe something else?
I know locally, it is usually a sea of blue followed by orange (ktm) in the bike classes.
You always hear so much about the smooth power of the crf - so why dont more guys use it?
Posted by: bradley300
its a sponsor issue, honda dropped thier contingency program.
also, the yzf is a hell of a bike in either 250 or 450 form.
Posted by: lt250r91
Ok now that Mickey has let the cat out of the bag. Lets here from Chad, Brad or anyone else that was out at this testing place and go to ride all the different machines.
First off which machines were involved?
Where all built racers or stock?
Who all was involved in the testing (riders)?
What type of track testing (mx, xc, or other)?
I'd like to hear from a couple different people on there thoughs
about what they liked about each machine. And also what they'd like to see improved/change.
And of course a order on firsted to last pick on which one you'd want to race and maybe why on the top picked one.
Was there any problems with any of the machines.
The biggest thing is I would like to see or than one reply with their view on the testing so we can get a feel of how different riders like different things about these quads so maybe if someone is looking to purchase a quad for next season they can use this to help determine which one suits their ride style best.
Thanks advance for all your input.
Mike
Posted by: GNCCracer
Mike,
I was one of the riders that was involved in the testing and here is my take on the different quads that I got to ride.
First off, the track we rode was roughly 3-4 miles of GNCC style riding. When I say GNCC style I mean nothing real tight and technical, 3rd gear shots through the woods, elevation changes, and a few field sections for some flat out runs.
All the bikes were set up with Maxxis Razr 2 front and rear tires, and Douglas wheels.
The first bike I got to ride was my own Suzuki Z400 built to a 463 by Mickey. The bike has all Houser components with Elka long travel front shocks and the Elka linkage rear shock. The motor is bored to a 463, and uses a 13:1 Wiseco piston. We also installed one of Mickey's intake cams, but did not replace the exhaust cam. The bike also has a White Brothers full exhaust system, and uses the stock Suzuki carb.
For my riding style, and my fitness level this bike and motor combination fits me the best. The power was very smooth, without that abrupt hit that some of the other bikes had. It was very easy for me to ride this bike in 3rd gear in almost all sections of the track. It didn't matter if it was a tight, tree lined section or a steep up hill climb. The motor had that 400ex torque feel off the bottom that lets you ride this bike smooth, and fast for a full 2 hour GNCC national. The top end may not have been as fast as the other bikes, but that also has to do with the gearing that I have selected on the bike. I feel to be successful at the nationals you need a bike that has good excelleration from corner to corner, but can still get up and run in an open field section.
It's hard for me to judge the suspension and handling on this bike because it is set up for my weight and riding style. The bike does have a GPR stabilizer and this definately helps to take the twitchiness out of the steering. The handling is good and very predictable. One thing that I liked best about the Suzuki is the T-shaped seat. I feel very comforable on the seat and I feel that it lets me transfer my weight better on the bike for those slick places on the trail.
The next bike I rode was Chad Duvalls Honda 500ex. The bike has all Houser components with Elka long travel front shocks and the Elka linkage Honda rear shock. The motor is bored and stroked by Mickey, to a 500 using a Wiseco piston and a full White Brothers exhaust system. Mickey's own cam is installed, and the bike uses a stock Honda carb.
The motor on this bike is what makes it so good. From bottom end to the top end this motor works. The down fall to this motor, just like all other 400ex motors is heat. This type of power in a new style, more up to date, 4-stroke, water cooled motor would be the ultimate GNCC weapon. Put this bike in 3rd gear and ride it. The torque is amazing, so much that it almost makes you a lazy rider. No abrupt hit at all. Just smooth 4-stroke power.
Handling is another issue all together. Don't get me wrong, the handling is not bad, but it could be better. Anyone who has rode a 400ex has felt the back end kick that these bikes are known for. It makes for a very unpredictable ride. Overall though this bike is probably still the best for your average GNCC national rider.
The next bike I rode was the Yamaha 450. The bike has Houser long travel a-arms with matching Elka front shocks. The rear swingarm was stock, and an Elka rear shock was installed. The motor was stock, with only a White Brothers slip-on pipe added.
Holy s%*#t, what a motor. A cross-country motor??? That is still up in the air. I have rode a few good 265 powervalve, 2-stoke motors and that thing would kill them. It's no wonder all the guy's on the GNC series are building bikes with these and Honda 450 motors in them. The bottom end was lacking, but when the mid-range and top end kicked in, hang on. Definately an awesome MX motor, but for xc it's going to take someone who is in very good physical condition to hang on to that thing for 2 plus hours.
I think for riders like Billy, Matt and Chad who ride that pace for that long it's going to be awesome, but for the normal rider, the motor has to much of an abrupt hit. This tires you out very quickly. I have heard of guy's putting flywheel weights on to slow the revs down, and this will probably help. Also, a little more compression in the motor would probably help with the bottom end power. I guess we will have to wait and see what kind of xc bike this will be. Only time will tell.
Handling was very good. No rear end kick like the Honda, but the front shocks were setup a little to stiff for me. A GPR stabilizer was also installed, and this really helped to make the bike feel real comfortable. When sitting on the bike it kinda feels small, but once you take off it almost feels like you are riding a dirt bike. Very light feeling. Were ever you point it, it goes. Yamaha did a very good job with this bike. I think the motor can be made to be xc friendly, and the handling is definately first class.
The last bike I rode was the GasGas 450. The Motor was completely stock. The fuel injection was richened up a little, but everything else was left alone. The bike had different front a-arms installed to bring the width down to 47 inches. The shocks were the stock Ohlins, with some adjustments made to them.
When I first rode this bike I really didn't know what to expect. Once I was done riding I was very impressed. The motor is very smooth from top to bottom. It has the feel of the Suzuki motor, with good power all the way through. My only complaint, and the reason that I liked the Suzuki motor a little better was that the GasGas needs a little more power out of the corners. You could ride the bike in 3rd gear almost everywhere, but when you would lug the motor down it didn't have that little bit of a hit to get back on top of the gear. By feathering the clutch you could get the power back, but doing this for 2 plus hours won't be good on the clutch. Also 6th gear on the bike was almost useless. I'm not sure the gear ratio on the GasGAS but this could be a quick fix for these problems. All in all, a very smooth power. This bikes motor will make you last the entire 2 hours of a national. It definately ranks right up there with the Suzuki and the Honda for me personally. Just a little more power from corner to corner and I think this could be a very good bike.
Handling is were this bike shines. Other than my Suzuki, that was set up for me, this bike worked the best. Very smooth and predictable handling. No back end kick at all. The bike felt twitchy in the front end but a steering stabilizer would cure this problem.
Definately the biggest surprise of the day. Time will tell if the reliablity of this bike is up to par.
These are just my opinions on the four bikes that we tested. Every riders skill level and physical fitness level plays a part in what they like out of a bike. For me, the Suzuki with that motor and suspension package worked the best. The Honda was also very good. The Yamaha was awesome in the handling department but the motor needs just a little bit of fine tuning to make it xc friendly. The same holds true for the GasGas. Everyone of these bikes had there goods and there bads. I think it doesn't matter what you are riding as long as you feel comfortable on that bike, just ride it!!!
With all that crap being said, I can't wait to get back to racing in September.
Chad Wallace
Posted by: RunninWILD
Hi Chad, Thanks for all the time you put into the reply above. Great information. I have one more question.
For the non pro rider, which quad do you think would take the least amount of money and work to be a racers quad? I know you listed lots of expensive mods on some of them and they still need personal preference tuning, but for the money conscious racer which would be the best start in your opinion to be competitive with the least amount of monetary investment.
Thanks
Posted by: bradley300
so what would you choose to race a gncc between the yammy and gas gas?
Posted by: Pappy
i wanna see a picture of the updated 500ex
Posted by: bradley300
i heard somebody at fst let thier 10 year old daughter paint the new frame with blue finger nail polish.
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by bradley300
i heard somebody at fst let thier 10 year old daughter paint the new frame with blue finger nail polish.
and i just ordered you HOT PINK powder for your frame
Posted by: GNCCracer
RunninWild, It's hard to say what bike would be the best for the least amount of money. You look at the prices for the 4 bikes that we rode and you see a very big difference in price. Honda has such good deals on 400ex you can probably pick one up for $4500 or so. I would say you could probably get a Suzuki for around $5000 and the new Yamaha for around $6800-$7000 range. I'm not real sure about the GasGas price so I won't comment on that bike at this time. The diffence between the Honda & Suzuki price compared to the Yamaha is between $2000-$2500. The extra money can be put into either one of these bikes and make them a very competive xc bike. Don't get me wrong. You won't have the same power that the Yamaha does for that money, but for an average xc racer, I don't think that will matter.
The Yamaha does have better shocks from the factory, but they still need work. You will still invest probably $700-$800 or more in the Yamaha shocks to make them right. Not everyone will feel that way, but by talking to most that have rode with the stock shocks that is the way they feel.
Bradley300, With my fitness level were it is at now, for a GNCC I would choose the GasGas. I feel that I could be very fast on the Yamaha for the first hour, but to hold on for 2 plus hours is a different story. This is only my opinion.
Posted by: GNCCracer
Pappy, that new 400ex frame turned out awesome. I may get in touch with you in a few days to powdercoat some beadlock rings that same color.
Posted by: bradley300
quote:
Originally posted by Pappy
and i just ordered you HOT PINK powder for your frame
sorry pappy, i usually miss a good chance to bust your chops. i gotta go for it when i see 'em.
whatever color my frame is, i'm sure it will look great. at least with pink you would see me comin and know to start taking pics.
it should be leaving the shop in a few days, john did everything and forgot to fix one of my motor mounts, as soon as he does that, it will be sent with the other parts.
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by GNCCracer
Pappy, that new 400ex frame turned out awesome. I may get in touch with you in a few days to powdercoat some beadlock rings that same color.
cool...it looked good when i dropped it off....i know a bunch of people that wanna see the new color combo
no prob bradley.....mc mcarrolls frame will be done this weekend
Posted by: cdalejef
Now for the big question Chad.......what class are you racing the rest of the season? Is a pink skirt in your future? Nathan is willing to give it up for a race I think!
Posted by:
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Now for the big question Chad.......what class are you racing the rest of the season? Is a pink skirt in your future? Nathan is willing to give it up for a race I think!
http://ricoracing.netfirms.com/Smilies/boxer.gif
Posted by: GNCCer
Chad you are about the same size as me. So I know the skirt will fit you. AND..........If you are not in the A class in PA the pink skirt will be on you.
I think many others feel the same way.
don't worry I will clean it before I bring it to you.
Posted by: lt250r91
First off Thanks for your input on how you thought of the different machines Chad. I think the info you gave may help people decide on which machine is best suited for them. That was what I was trying to get accomplished with this.
I figured all the riders would put there machine first on the list do to having the machine set-up for them and used to riding it. As for what you said about the engine characteristic of the GasGas and YZF that was the same impression I was under of both.
Also remember with the GasGas being fuel injected you can change how the power comes on so if you wanted more bottom end I'm sure Rick or any GasGas rep could change it so it would have what you wanted. Or maybe a different cam or pipe system might do the trick. I did notice that my 300 was geared a little high. Easy fix go up 2-4 teeth on the rear sprocket.
One thing I would like to add is the cost of each of the machines that was tested.
I know the reatil of the GG 450 is $8595 and with the changes made I guess it'd be around 10k (with steering dampner added too).
I'd guess the YFZ is about the same with the added goodies (10K).
I'm not sure what the Chad Wallace or Chad Duvall quads would cost to have one built with all the goodies. If you care to share please do or correct the my est. prices on the other ones.
In the end what one do you think is the best bang for your buck? Trail riding, XC racing, and MX?
Thanks again for you input Chad W.
How about hearing from Duvall or Macri or anyone else that was there testing.
Posted by: Ryan
Great info Chad! It made my decisions a little easier .
Posted by: chad duvall
Ok Mike, Yes I tested them all last sunday and all the bikes that I tested are all good machines. I rode the 500ex first its still a great race machine. It fits me but of course it is set up for my racing style. My only question is how and the world did I ever keep up. The power/motor is excellent but the handling still needs some work, not the front end but the backend(which chad w commented to about the kicking). 2nd I rode the GAS GAS is the most perdictable and smoothes ride but it seems like the motor just dont have that real hit like the YZF (yet?). 3rd and final ride was the YZF and yes holy crap. For my riding style yes it all seemed to click, Yes I think it also has issues as I have stated before but they all do at some point for each different rider. I havent been this excited. This thing really rips and for me I accually enjoy riding it. The handling reminds me of my roll. The motor is like my 500ex with a turbo charge! But like chad w said each rider is different and fits to a quad much different but put myself, matt and bill on one and it is the good old days of hard fast racing action! But on a hole what ever you may be furtune to get/race make the best of it. I am sure mickey can assist in making it as comfortable to race as he has to our race team bikes. Thanks to all who reply and hope this was a help.
Posted by: lt250r91
Mr Duvall
Thanks for taking the time to post on here and sharing your opinion with all of us.
Next I want to tell you something that a very wise old atv racer (Chad Duvall) told me earlier this season when I told him that I had enough and was going to quit. If I remember right I was told to go back to the basics and just have fun, cause that is what this sport is about. Well I'm still racing and enjoying every minute of it so thanks for the words of wisedom and I would like to say the same to you. To me it sounds like the YFZ is more of the machine for you. Can't blame you I to like the snap and feel of the 2-stroke power, that's why I'm on the 300 GasGas. And I will stand behind them 100% in my mind nothing even comes close to it for me. The quad is exactly what I've always wanted. I would love to see you on a GasGas 450 or 300. But as long as your racing I don't care what you ride just as long as your out there soluting me when you lap me. Goodluck and can't wait to see what quad you'll be on the rest of this season and next.
The reason I started this thread and have asked the past questions is to let people know that GasGas is a serious company that builds awesome and very competitive quads that need very little mods to win races. And the test this past weekend from the post that we've received confirms that, but it also proves that different quads are for different riders. The YZF is a 2-stroke want-a-be that needs some mods, where as the GasGas 450 is a tradional 4-stroke that can be riden all day and not get tried, but is also a top notch handling machine that is ready to be raced. All these quads need finishing touches to race them, it just somes down to which one fits your riding style. One other note on both new quads is that neither one has been proven as a dependable quad like the 400ex. Time will tell that story. But GasGas has advantage because their unbelievable track record in the dirtbike scene on engines that are bulletproof. Yamaha on the other hand is noted for first year problems on their machines. This is just the history of the to companies doesn't mean these models will follow that.
Thanks again both Chad's and Mickey for you time and input on these quads and please keep us updated on any new info.
See you all at the races
Posted by: RunninWILD
First of all I have to say thanks again for all the test riders comments on this past weekends test rides.
I want to make sure I understand exactly what was said. All the quads had the mods as listed by Chad w as well as of course standard race essentials like pro pegs, nerf bars, kill switch etc like that. Except for the GG that comes with all that stuff already.
What I deduced from all this information is that I can take an $8500 stock Gas Gas450 and not do anything to it at all except add more narrow a-arms and tune the stock suspension to my preference, not even add a pipe, and have one of the smoothest and best handling pro race competitive quads available.
And it will compete with pro modded GNCCers if I could keep up?
WOW!!!!! I guess that certainly helped my pocket book decide at least.
Thanks again for saving me lots of time and money
Those GG need to hurry on up and get here
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