[What seperates the pro's from the amatures???] - ATV Riders Forums - Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Polaris, CanAm, Arctic Cat, Kymco ATVs

Pages:1

What seperates the pro's from the amatures???
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: 440EX4me

This question or the answer to it has been buggin me for a while.

I understand the differences in the machines and even some of the diff's in the experience etc but what really sets the pro's apart.

Heard about Chris Borich taking another A class win at a PA harescramble on a basicaly stock Z400 and started thinking about this again.

Now I have seen him ride b4 and he is fast "really fast" but that was on the R. I have to think that the other A class riders arent slow or they would be in the C class etc and I have seen many fast riders there too.

So how did this happen? Was it skill level? Experience? conditioning? Is there something missing?

What does it take to be able to be fast enough that you could out pace much faster better suspended machines?

There has to be more to this than just time on your machine and I am looking for your thoughts.

Posted by: indygncc

The difference is that they are great riders, they did not start their career out with all the best machinery and equipment. Chris worked his way up through the ranks by running B then A class etc... Yes their high dollar bikes help them, but the only reason they are winning is because they are the best. Im sure that Chris would beat all the other "A" class guys on a stock Blaster most likely. All the money that people sink into their quads is just a waste of money and does not make them faster unless they are good enough to push the bike to the next limit.

Posted by: Derno24

Lenny let me see here if I can help with a more practical reason.

1. Yes conditioning is a big part of it. He is in a hell of alot better shape than most riders out there. I am sure this is from constant riding.

2. Natural ability does have to play here too.

3. The immense number of hours of seat time. I guarantee you he rides more in one week on average than you do in a month.

Now for the way you can get better Lenny.

5. Put down the smoke and actually ride.

4. Stop worrying about how pretty your bike looks and just ride

3. You are in no physical shape to be able to ride with Borich

2. Your ammount of riding time is very small I ride as much as you do and I only ride for an hour and a half every sunday.

1. The number one reason Borich is faster than you Lenny....You actually have to get into a race instead of him lapping you while you are sitting on the sidelines.

:devil :devil :devil :devil

Posted by: 440EX4me

quote:
The difference is that they are great riders,

Agreed but how they get to be great?

quote:
Lenny let me see here if I can help with a more practical reason.

Ron, nothing personal but I was gonna put a disclaimer in the original question just for you cause I knew you were gonna say that crap

Obviously I wasnt making any reference to my own skills in this question, and if I rode everyday I doubt I would be pushing any pro's into your favorite place, the trees anytime soon.

I am thinking you missed a big one in your suggestion of what I should do to be a faster rider and that would be to ride with fast riders :blah :blah :devil but like I had said this isnt about me.

Ideas anyone?

Posted by: Derno24

Lenny, Lenny, Lenny: I answered you seriously in the first part.

As with any sport there is a level of ability needed and then there is just seat time (PRACTICE). If you are looking for something magical to seperate people you are mistaken. There isn't much more to it. The level of equipment doesn't seperate him from the amatuers it helps seperate him from the other expert riders. Look at the GNCC he doesn't win those all the time so there are definitely better riders out there.

Now in response to the last part of your post. So who have you been riding with??? Anytime you ride with me, which is rare, I am always waiting for you to catch up.

How they get to be great: I will take a quote from Bull Durham
"The gods came down from the heaven's and blessed your arm with the ability to thunderbolts. Now don't piss away that god given gift."

I think I screwed that up, but it is close.

Posted by: Pappy

doubtful...i watched borich (actually was behind him racin) and he nailed a fallen log ...the rear of the quad was 3 feet in the air...and only the right front tire was on the ground....he never let off the gas and the second the quad hit the ground he was gone...never slowed him down a bit

now..if that had been me...i would have either wrecked....had to stop and have a smoke....and deffinatley would have backed off the hammer and asked myself....all this for a trophy

i agree that the seat time...expierence of riding at such a fast pace....and an ingrained ability to go fast over the ruff stuff is what sets apart the "pro's" form the rest of us.

but ....does that mean if i ride for 10 hours a week ill be a pro

doubtful...but i would imagine id get faster and faster.

jeff at the QS rides his mountain bike...has let all his hair fall out(wind resistance

) has been racing non stop forever and is a fast mofo. he is in great shape...his brain can read terrain and his expierence allows him to make few mistakes or atleast recover from mistakes and stay on the gas.

i noticed at hatfield that i was laying off the gas at turns...blind hills etc. my brain is tellin me it aint worth the pain anymore

the pro's dont let off for jack. they keep the hammerdown and make it look so easy.

hell, it scares me anymore to even watch motorcross....they just do stuff that seems unnatrual.

Posted by: ZRacer

Its scares me just to Watch Pappy drive his Jeep besides his ATV. I just don't know how he does it.

As far as Chris goes, He is just an incredible rider. I pulled the holeshot in the race and was able to stay ahead of him for about 4-5 miles before he picked a better line and passed me. I followed him for a while and once we hit the fields he was gone. He even passed Rob Hertz on his R, and Rob is an excellent rider ranked in the top 15 in the country.

It does just go to show that ability and eagerness to want to go fast are more important than the machine you are on. I felt great that day, and ran a great race the first 3 laps, but was dead for the last two laps and got passed by two other riders. I feel I became a faster rider just by getting a chance to race with Chris, but I will never be as fast as him or even close. He takes risk that I just can't or don't want to take when racing.

Posted by: Pappy

quote:
Originally posted by ZRacer
Its scares me just to Watch Pappy drive his Jeep besides his ATV. I just don't know how he does it.
.

look....you hit one old lady gettin her mail and yer labeled a bad driver

kids these days:devil :blah

Posted by: ZRacer

the real sad part was that she had a mailbox on her front porch by the Door!

Posted by: Pappy

details...just small detail

id agree with zracer tho....the majority of riders that make it to A class and then to the pro class have a ton of drive and self determination

Posted by: Derno24

It sounds like the biggest thing is a lack for personal safety.

I have that why can't I go faster????

Well I guess I will have to be happy with the checkerboard floor...

Posted by: jlhughes750

seat time is a plus but its not Chris's secret. He does not ride much, heck Smiley never ever rode unless he raced he did that for years. Chris is in a good position in his career, the best equipment and a great family pushing him 24/7 is a big advantage. Those top 5 pros have that extra edge that we don't, just a little bit extra.
theres more though, CONFIDENCE is the biggest thing!!!!! Chris moved his way up through the ranks and stayed pretty quiet the entire time. When he turned A at the locals he beat us 1 or 2 times right away, then he saw waht he could do. He just kept getting faster since then. ZRACER made an interesting statment about seeing him ride this weekend. There were 4-5 races last yeear where i was running my R and got the holeshot, i knew Chris was back there and i just tryed to ride smooth, Foot o Mnt. last year i darn near made it a whole lap with him on my arse, (5miles) we swapped in the woods a few times. I rode in 2nd for a half mile or so and watched wear he placed his wheels and how he positioned his body, it was helpful. Now i can ride good, pick great lines and battle with anyone, but not for more than one lap. so when we came through the barrels and i new everone saw me hanging with him,that was enough for me!!!!hahahah then i had to back it down a notch so i did not fly off the quad due to fatigue.!!!!!!

CONFIDENCE,STAMINA,SKILL AND LACK OF FEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS A WINNING COMBO.............

Posted by: ill_lil_romey

I think the thing that sets the pros apart is just natural god given riding ability. I believe that for a fact. Have you guys ever watched RC or James Stewart ride? OR someone like Creech of Farr? Those guys just have that talent and have been doing if for years.

Posted by: 440EX4me

Guys thanx for the great replies (yes even rons other ones LOL) I dont want you to think I am just picking Chris as the others amaze me also.

Look at how Balance does it and allways looks so smooth (never seen it in person but his moves look so fluid on the tv etc.) ad I know I am talking about some of the best riders in the world.

Ron (Derno24) does have a point in that he does not think before making some of his decisions and just hammers down and holds on etc, but there are deff some diff's there too.

Keep those idea coming.

Posted by: Pappy

len...next time your at a gncc take a look at the axis's on ballances quad....there is some differences that i havent seen on any other axis

i honestly think ballance looks like he is part of the quad. borich kinda hangs on and keeps the throttle pinned...and yoke looks like every other rider out there...but he is fast at it

Posted by: Doibugu2

I was watching the GNCC's on tv Sunday, I think it was the Georgia race. Most of the time I said to myself, awe, I can hang with these guys. Mainly because of the camera angles and stuff.

But they also had a few other angles that were pretty close up and it showed really how fast they are. I got scared and tensed up just watching them. Freaky fast is the term that I like to use.

Reasons as to why they are faster then us.

1) God given ability. I don't know how much this comes into play, but I'm sure it helps.

2) They are in great shape. Anyone can do this, but were all just lazy.

3) Confidence/lack of fear. Like Pappy was saying, if my rear end was 3 feet in the air, I would have to get off and tell someone. I would not keep the throttle pinned. They think of where they are going next, we think of where we might crash next.

JMO

Posted by: 440EX4me

quote:
i honestly think ballance looks like he is part of the quad. borich kinda hangs on and keeps the throttle pinned...and yoke looks like every other rider out there...but he is fast at it

Thats what I am trying to figure since its obvious not all the top riders ride alike and most likely didnt get their skills the same way. I had thought maybe I should have titled this thread how to ride like a pro but thats not really the point I am or was looking to get to.

As far as those "trick" axis shocks go I dont know much about them but we all know what a diff suspension can make.

quote:
Confidence/lack of fear. Like Pappy was saying, if my rear end was 3 feet in the air, I would have to get off and tell someone. I would not keep the throttle pinned. They think of where they are going next, we think of where we might crash next.

Understood. And maybe that thinking of where to go v/s where to crash just makes some go that way and others crash.

I have not been riding very long(on 4 wheels any how) and consider myself as a beginner in this sport and I have to agree that having your rear tires over 3ft in the air at WOT running within inches of the trees is awesome and something that I would have a deff problem with pulling that off without a wreck.

Jason, thanx for sharing the cool experience.

quote:
seat time is a plus but its not Chris's secret. He does not ride much, heck Smiley never ever rode unless he raced he did that for years

You hear this about a lot of people but I still think theres more to it than just natural ability. Sure some people can pick a line better or feel their machine better etc but I got to think theres more to it.

Oh well keep em coming.

Posted by: Doibugu2

I really just started riding last year and I am 27. I consider myself a decent athlete just really out of shape. I was always decent at most sports, but riding is a whole nother animal.

Before we went down to H/M last year I was flat out slow. After watching everyone last year and riding for 5 straight days, I'm now 10 times faster. I also got shocks over the winter and I think that made a big difference. I just can't gauge how much. My riding buddy actually said he sometimes had problems keeping up. Ok, he is only on a warrior, but still.

I don't know what I am getting at, but I don't think people that just ride 1 time a week would keep there edge. Even MJ practiced a lot.

Posted by: monkeyboy

ax jonny C wat maks him fass

Posted by: CUZ'n

quote:
Originally posted by monkeyboy
ax jonny C wat maks him fass

cuz he ben runin frum u

don be mad dat wus a joke

johny c is betr dan all u

Posted by: 440EX4me

Doibugu2, I know where your coming from and have to admit picking up riding the dirt bike was a lot easier but I was a lot younger then too. I got a few years on you and know that its too late to look to being competitive in the top ranks etc. but I am not sure thats something I was interested in anyhow.

Now dont misunderstand me I would like to be a better rider and have learned a lot in the year or so I have been riding quads and theres no comparison between the way things were in the beggining and are now.

I personally ride more for fun and stuff and enjoy a normal trail ride as much as blasting down it fast as you can, so this is all really just for understanding not trying to get the #1 plate etc

quote:
ax jonny C wat maks him fass

Bad Monkey!! :devil

Cant do that if he's not here.

Posted by: Johnny_G

I really wish I knew how to answer this question...................

It is just the ability to get on an ATV and manipulate it with your body!!!!!

I guess the best way to explain it is for me riding just make sense, everything is a reaction I seldom if ever think about what I am doing it just happens.

The difference between me and Bill Ballance is that the race happens slower in his mind..............although we may be going the same speed, or he may even be moving faster(most times)

.....this way he is always in control and completely at ease!!!!

Hard to say how a person can go from backyard warrior to GNCC Champ, but my best suggestion would be to ride as often as possible, and try to surround yourself with riders who are faster than you...this helps you get comfortable riding at faster speeds.

Good luck

Posted by: jlhughes750

also your job can have alot to do with it. i started in 94 and won the B class easily. i had to move to A the next year and it was fun. the problem was i could hardly ride 45 minutes with out just cramping up and falling off. my problem was i never would admit defeat and would push myself even if it meant i was out of control and to weak to hang on. Well then i crashed alot and got hurt sometimes. well in the winter of 96 i decided to lose around 40 pounds i was always around 230lbs when i started racing, then i got a job in a machine shop,no heat in the winter no a/c in the summer, we did hi production runs so i would basically curl 25lbs once every ten seconds for 10 hours. Well that spring we went to Flor. for the opener i had always been kinda a joke never a contender in A class, that day i got sixth after running top 5 all day. it was great, i could run 2 hours at a pace that i used to save for the first mile. Well that lasted till 99 the last year i won and A championship and i barely won it by 1 point. since then i went back to my desk job and it did not take long till i was getting winded starting my R. now i have an EX i just push buttons.
anyhow, if your a block layer, lumberjack, landscaper, farmer or work in a yard crushing cars all day then your probably in good shape. incedently these are the careers of most of the top GNCC guys.
CARDIO,CARDIO,CARDIO GET THE HEART RATE UP ALOT THROUGH OUT THE WEEK AND YOUR BODY WON'T BE SO TAKEN BY SURPRISE ON RACE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
believe it or not you know what they say about sex for exercise, it works!!!!!!!!!

later, J

Posted by:

quote:
Originally posted by jlhughes750
also your job can have alot to do with it. i started in 94 and won the B class easily. i had to move to A the next year and it was fun. the problem was i could hardly ride 45 minutes with out just cramping up and falling off. my problem was i never would admit defeat and would push myself even if it meant i was out of control and to weak to hang on. Well then i crashed alot and got hurt sometimes. well in the winter of 96 i decided to lose around 40 pounds i was always around 230lbs when i started racing, then i got a job in a machine shop,no heat in the winter no a/c in the summer, we did hi production runs so i would basically curl 25lbs once every ten seconds for 10 hours. Well that spring we went to Flor. for the opener i had always been kinda a joke never a contender in A class, that day i got sixth after running top 5 all day. it was great, i could run 2 hours at a pace that i used to save for the first mile. Well that lasted till 99 the last year i won and A championship and i barely won it by 1 point. since then i went back to my desk job and it did not take long till i was getting winded starting my R. now i have an EX i just push buttons.
anyhow, if your a block layer, lumberjack, landscaper, farmer or work in a yard crushing cars all day then your probably in good shape. incedently these are the careers of most of the top GNCC guys.
CARDIO,CARDIO,CARDIO GET THE HEART RATE UP ALOT THROUGH OUT THE WEEK AND YOUR BODY WON'T BE SO TAKEN BY SURPRISE ON RACE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
believe it or not you know what they say about sex for exercise, it works!!!!!!!!!

later, J

You mean sittin on my arse behind a computer all week isn't building up my stamina?????

Posted by: jlhughes750

No not at all, my boss was full of snot!!!!!!!! also those darn clowns at the uniform co. keep taking in my pants around the waist, I KNOW its not me they must be fooling with me.

BTW i'd kinda rather be here clowning with y'all then out at a job site slowly removing my fingerprints by carrying blocks. but then it would keep me in better shpae, HHHHMMMMMMMMMMMM????????

Posted by: Johnny_G

quote:
Originally posted by jlhughes750
if your a block layer, lumberjack, landscaper, farmer or work in a yard crushing cars all day then your probably in good shape. incedently these are the careers of most of the top GNCC guys.
believe it or not you know what they say about sex for exercise, it works!!!!!!!!!

later, J

1. Ballance- Farmer
2. Smiley- Landscaper
3. Yokely- Lumber yard hand
4. Borich- Salvage yard worker
5. Page- Construstion worker
6. Derisi- Owner Derisi racing (rides alot)
7. Duvall- Not sure but I think construction
9. Trew- Student, and not sure what else, but he is built!!
10. Rice- Construction worker, makes "The Rock" look flabby
11. Knippenburg- not sure he's really quiet, but I'll find out
12. Hertz- Machine shop worker
13. Crump- Construction worker
14. Me- SALES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, I sit at my computer 10 hours a day!!!

Man I may have just figured out why I used to be number 7............I landscaped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you say career change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LMFAO

Posted by: jlhughes750

thanks Johhny for backing up my theory.

i think johnny knows what he's talking about.

later, J

Posted by: BigAl

The Pros WANT to win more than you do.

I think all the things you guys listed are important, but I think the difference is DESIRE, DETERMINATION, DRIVE, whatever you want to call it.

BTW Johnny G , its cool to get inpt from a guy that is actually doing it.

Posted by: Pappy

amen to the on job exercise ...

for the first 10 years i worked hussling batteries...id carry between 400 and 600 a day. i went to the head office 3 years ago...and man does it show

i didnt get back to quads until last year and i could barely do 2 or 3 laps on a mx track. haha still cant

but i do see an advantage....i can muscle a quad now ....back when i was first into quads all i did was hang on for dear life

the mental side of racing is just as important. zracer has had crap for luck at the nationals this season....and i say its cause he was going thru a ton of stress at home, job etc. since all thats is now fixed his attitude has changed again and now he is ready to try and whoop some *****

i guess there is a level where your riding ability is polished to the point where its a natural thing...no real thinking about what to do when stuff happens...or terrain gets bad etc. then the physical steps have already been stored in muscle memory and a rider at that level just does it. and makes it look damn easy.

i watched carmicheal and reed battle sunday....both looked like they were programmed riders. they just did it all correctly. and with the stuff they do your head has to be in its own lil zone.

Posted by: KY Woods Rider

I don't know that I'm in much of a position to be saying what makes pro riders so fast (I've been riding quads in the woods for over 15 years now, but I sure ain't pro), but I'll give it a shot anyway.

Now, the three biggest differences that I see between amateurs and pros are dedication, how well they use the space between their ears, and their job.

Here they are broken down in a bit more detail.
Dedication: everyone that owns a quad enjoys riding and are dedicated to having fun, so that's not the point. However, if you want to be really good, you've got to put down the beer, cigarettes, and TV remote and actually ride the quad. Very few people are willing to give up relaxation time and other hobbies to go pound laps on the quad. And you can't just go cruise around for an hour and think its helping, you've got to be trying to go faster. More aggressive riding will give you better endurance and make you more confortable with pushing the envelope.

Using your head: sometimes it looks like plain old talent, but its usually just experience combined with thinking ahead and planning. Just watch a pro rider and an amatuer rider go through technical sections, the amateur hits every bump and hole, gets stuck in the ruts, and ends up getting all out of shape. The pro rider is thinking ahead and will even slow down to check out a section if he feels that it may pose a problem. By picking the correct line, the pro rider has just flew through a section that the amateur is still trying to get out of. Sometimes slow is fast, just think ahead and choose lines carefully, don't go charging in at full throttle without having a good route picked out. Now you say, "How do you know which line is the best without actually stopping and looking at it?" Well, that's what more riding experience will teach you, so get off your butt and ride.

Job: many people have the skills and dedication, but they either don't have the time or money to go race. If you don't have the money, you sure ain't gonna get any handouts unless you can prove to somebody that you're worth taking a chance on with a sponsorship; and very few people are willing to take that risk until you actually finish good in some nationally ranked races (which goes back to having the money to get started in the first place). Time is another hard nut to crack (no pun intended

). Most people don't have a job where they can get all the time off they want and most people can't just quit work because they wanna race. This is what stops many of the really good "local" racers from going pro.

Edited to fix all my spelling and punctuation errors

Posted by: Ex'r Marlin

Me, being an "amature", am not the best to answer this question. But being an "amature", I know if I got into better shape by doing cardio, loosing some (ok, a lot) weight,

and other related exercises (more sex)

I am sure I would greatly improve my endurance, and maybe move me up a few positions in a race... But until you can overcome your fears and dedicate yourself to your goal, you will not be the best you can be, which may put you less than a "pro".

I believe practice makes perfect... But you still may need desire, commitment, dedication, and discipline.

Thanks Lenny (440EX4me) for starting this thread... I really like the replies everyone is giving... Great stuff!!!

Posted by: OCCRA288

Johnny Gallagher
Issue 5- What is "IT"?
johnnyg@********.com

In any type of competition there is a team, or an individual athlete who tends to shine brighter that the rest. Sport's journalists will often refer to these individuals as having that "IT" quality that allows them to excel when others fail. To consistently rise to the occasion and leave the competition wondering what just hit them. As the current off-road racing season nears completion, most of us are left in awe of much of what we have witnessed. In the MX outdoors, Ricky Charmichael pulled off a perfect season - winning not just every race, but all 24 motos along the way. In the 125 class, James Stewart won 10 of 12 races and likely would have won more had it not been for a few mechanical gremlins. A little closer to home is the GNCC series, after 10 of 13 events Jason Rains holds the cards for the #1 bike plate, (despite being virtually unknown coming into 2002). Now on to the part you guys actually care about. Bill Ballance has won every event since round four way back in April. (Note: Chad Duvall won the overall at round 6, but Ballance won the pro class) That's six straight wins for those of us who are mathematically challenged. I think we can safely say that whatever "IT" is, Bill has.

So now I ask how can we define this quality that turns mere men into Gods, average Joes into figures that strike fear into all those who dare to challenge them on the battlefield? Some say it's just natural talent, others say that luck is what separates the number one guy from second through fifth. Natural Talent? I personally don't believe such a thing exists. It is very hard for me to say that anyone is born with a genetic predisposition to go fast on a motorcycle. Luck? Bull*****! I have suffered more DNFs and poor finishes due to some type of setback in the last three years, than I'd care to even think about. I will be the first person to admit, only as of recently, that each one of those can be attributed to either poor judgment, or preparation on the part of myself or someone on my team. Bottom line, there is no such thing as luck, good or bad. When something unexpected happens it can be traced to a decision or action.

You ask, "Johnny, if natural talent and luck are just mythical ideas, then how do you explain domination in sports that are so packed with athletes that are both qualified and motivated"? In my opinion, expectations of ones self are the defining factor in determining who wins and who doesn't. Ricky Charmichael won each of those motos this summer long before he ever even went to the starting gate. He won those motos while lounging in the Team Honda big rig, and on the way to each race event. Not to make him sound cocky, but he won those motos in his sleep. These moments, along with about another 1420 minutes per day, (I left him 20 minutes a day to think about food, and manly desires), Ricky was distancing himself from the fastest motorcycle riders in the world. Why and how? Rest assured that as good as the rest of the pack is, they spent the days and hours before each time they went to the line thinking about how to beat Ricky - all the while Charmichael was thinking, scratch that, knowing that he was going to win, and there was nothing anyone could do about it.

As I type this I am preparing to leave for the GNCC race at High Point. Sometime after 3pm Eastern Time Saturday afternoon, there will be three individuals standing atop the GNCC podium drinking champagne. History tells us that Bill Ballance will likely be on that podium, and although Matt Smiley, William Yokley, Chris Borich, Brad Page, and several others will do everything in their power to prevent it, he will likely be the first one up there. Although this is a likely occurrence, one thing is absolute. William, Matt, and the others have spent the last 12 days trying to formulate a game plan to beat Ballance. They will work this out in their heads up until the green flag drops. Bill meanwhile has spent those same days doing farm chores, playing with his new baby girl and driving east bound towards the famed Mt. Morris facility - all the while thinking, scratch that, knowing that he is going to win, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Gallagher's dictionary defines "IT" as a quality that occurs when equal parts preparation, dedication, and self belief are mixed together, resulting in a heightened sense of competition, and eventually - domination.

Johnny G -out

Taken from ATV Scene.com Johnny Gallagher "What is It?"

Posted by: ill_lil_romey

quote:
Originally posted by Johnny_G
I really wish I knew how to answer this question...................

It is just the ability to get on an ATV and manipulate it with your body!!!!!

I guess the best way to explain it is for me riding just make sense, everything is a reaction I seldom if ever think about what I am doing it just happens.

The difference between me and Bill Ballance is that the race happens slower in his mind..............although we may be going the same speed, or he may even be moving faster(most times)
.....this way he is always in control and completely at ease!!!!

Hard to say how a person can go from backyard warrior to GNCC Champ, but my best suggestion would be to ride as often as possible, and try to surround yourself with riders who are faster than you...this helps you get comfortable riding at faster speeds.

Good luck

He just said it all man. It's that ability to become one with the bike!!! Yes. Someone finally has the idea. To me that is what its all about man. If you can get on your bike and control it like it was part of your body, then you have it. Shape has alot to do with it also. But I ride on an MX track about 4 days a week.

Posted by: Sick0

I think one of the biggest things to winning is you have want it. Get focued where you want to go and go for it. But you have to control it. I found something thats help me alot look ahead. see whats the othere rider is doing and/or what line to take. Last year I had a lot of bad luck but I started thinking most of it wasn't bad luck. I either didn't prepare or idn't think smart in the race and put my self in a bad place. And in novice like I am that means get suck with or behind somebody.

Now I always try to push myself.( going into a corner faster than Imy brain wants me too.) Ride as smooth as possible.( I don't just hold the pin it got through stuff sloppy). Look ahead( see what the order riders are doing geuss whats they are going to do). If its early in a race I will try diffrent lines that may be faster or a slower turn I can pass in front of somebody and block them off and take there spot. And just have a clear mind and thinking ahead.

I think practice is improtant. With all of the new mods I put in my bike I'm still try to find the limits of the me and my limits. I know theres I for me to learn so I feel good.

I would like to think I know whats it takes to win a race I just have to keep bring the level every time I ride or race.

Posted by: Derek

when i talk with the top A rider out here in D5, he tells me that he taps ever time at a practice track. This way he can watch himself and see what he is doing wrong so he can correct himself.

Posted by: 400grl

As an amateur, I can tell you where I am lacking - and what is holding me back from being faster than I am.......my need to walk away from a race and go home to my kids is usually greater than my need to get that trophy - although, somehow, I still get a lot of trophies.....

I only get to practice 1-2 times a week (4-5 hours at a time) - so my seat time isn't that great. I work in a cushy office all day, so there goes any advantage I would have as far as on the job conditioning goes (have to make up for it after work in the weight room) - and the last words ringing in my ears before I line up for my motos are my kids saying "just please don't crash Mommy!"

So.....I've got lots of strikes against me. However, what this HAS done is made me ride smarter - and I find that if I do that, I am still winning races - I am not the fastest in my class many times, but being fast doesn't matter if you wad up in the braking bumps - or try to pass through a shut door, or overshoot that first turn.

I think there are fast riders out there, and there are smart riders out there, but what really takes a rider far is if they are fast, smart, and just plain WANT it more than everyone else in their class.

Just my .02!

Posted by: Jeff@TireBalls

quote:
Originally posted by Pappy

jeff at the QS rides his mountain bike...has let all his hair fall out(wind resistance ) has been racing non stop forever and is a fast mofo. he is in great shape...his brain can read terrain and his expierence allows him to make few mistakes or atleast recover from mistakes and stay on the gas.

Thanks.......I think

Posted by: Pappy

sorry jeff...i was tryin to throw them off the real reason yer hair is thinin

its that amazon sex thing:devil lmao...his real secret revealed:blah

Posted by: Jeff@TireBalls

SHHHHHH!!!!

Posted by: 440EX4me

Though we did get off to a rough start this is getting interesting, and thanx all for the great replies. I knew there was something to all this and I was deff missing some pieces to this puzzle for sure.

The determination and desire issues are great ones. I guess a person needs some kind of drive to push themselves to those levels. This would be nothing without some physical ability, natural and learned talent etc so its looking like a "package" of things are needed.

400grl I know what you mean with not getting hurt bad stuff, and though I dont race I know it would be a factor since thats one of the first things I remind myself evertime I ride "dont hurt yourself so bad you cant get to work" and thats rule #1. rule #2 is easier "do or try whatever you want but dont forget rule #1" LOL .

Johnny G thanx for the input and the "it" story was excelent. I agree with big al that is great to get first hand input.

Theres a lot of good info and ideas here and I hope it helps someone get better at it and all and it deff has answered a few questions I had as well.

I doubt I will be able to put that much of this to any practical use, but just knowing some of this is helpfull as I am one of those people who just needs to understand stuff etc. (Its a real pain sometimes too) but I am more comfortable having the knowledge even if I may not need or be able to use it. This will be helpfull someware in the future I am sure.

Keep em coming

Posted by: popo

I have to agree with determination and desire will allow you to succeed. But some got it and same ain't got it. Facts are fact's brother. And I am first to step up to the plate and state, I ain't got it to be on the front row.

But determination and desire pushes me to come back to beat my previous times, and to improve.... I could care less about getting wood or points. But If some reason I happen to get wood, I'll be as happy as a puppy with a new peeter humping a stuffed toy.

Put this in perspective. To play in this desired sport.

Rough figures.

$30,000.00 Truck
$ 5,000.00 Trailer.
$ 5,500.00 Stock Quad.
$ 6,000.00 In bling blings.
$ 650.00 Entry Fees
$ 2,000.00 Travel expenses.

This is nothing, what about certain individuals who put out of their own pockets to sponsor riders or teams.

Posted by: monkeyboy

quote:
Originally posted by popo

Put this in perspective. To play in this desired sport.

Rough figures.

$30,000.00 Truck
$ 5,000.00 Trailer.
$ 5,500.00 Stock Quad.
$ 6,000.00 In bling blings.
$ 650.00 Entry Fees
$ 2,000.00 Travel expenses.

This is nothing, what about certain individuals who put out of their own pockets to sponsor riders or teams.

wow papa U muss b a jabizonare or sumtin

Posted by: CUZ'n

quote:
Originally posted by monkeyboy
wow papa U muss b a jabizonare or sumtin

i tink he took tree dollas from me whn he takn me to jail

Posted by: Pappy

lmfao...popo are you rollin the drunkards again

:blah

Posted by: Sick0

The sport ain't as expensive if you are smart and work hard enough.

Posted by: ex kid

it has alot to do with how you grew up to. if your always out side driving a tractor doing yard work for your dad or helping him with his consturution busniess, your more likey to ride/race. that's kinda me. i was at the race were borich rode the basicly stock z to an overal. the dude is just fast. rob probably would have won,but his plastic like came off wich took a long pit. (i think). i think it all has to do with mentally pushing yourself to know you can hang with someone and win. i forget who said it but if you gave ballence a 250ex he would tear up any B class racer or below on the fastest bike they can find. another thing is ballence has the experience and is older than chris. if you give chris another year, ballence will be a name of the past. smiley and rob are getting a little older but their still a threat beause of their experience.i dunno that is just my take on it

Posted by: Chef

My expense list has been more like this:

$25,000 Truck
$9,000 Trailer
$4,500 Stock Quad
$17,000 In Aftermarket
$6,300 Stock Quad
$18,000 In Aftermarket
$1,500 in Tires
$60 for Gas to take to the track
$700 for entry fees, all season.
$??? Lost from taking the day off work

Add two more first place trophies to this:

Posted by: toby400ex

its all about knowing what your quad is gonne do in situations and pushing it to the limit. It may not be all about the bike but you cant tell me some shocks and a steering stablilizer dont help from getting as tired as quick.

Posted by: popo

quote:
Originally posted by CUZ'n
i tink he took tree dollas from me whn he takn me to jail

cuz, Sorry all your dimes and nickles are with the DEA, along with your bongs and the three bails of marijuna you claim are for your Kentucky derby horse. The moon shine was good, Thanks.

You can have your scale back thou, you ground all the numbers off thinking they where the serial numbers.

Pizza Hut wants there mushrooms back, that you where trying to sell on the street.

Good news. Your piss test came back. Your sperms are soo drunk and stoned, the few left they are taking bets to see who dies next. Sorry monky no unkle fer u.

Posted by: 440EX4me

quote:
You can have your scale back thou, you ground all the numbers off thinking they where the serial numbers.

LMFAO good one there popo

Posted by: popo

quote:
Originally posted by Chef
[B]My expense list has been more like this:

$1,500 in Tires

Man you got ripped off, there no nobbs on them their tires. lol

Posted by: CUZ'n

b nice papa cuz i hav a piktur of u an dat gurl

dem guys at dat donut ship wil mak fun of u:grr an it wasn my skale

an my hors wernt alowd in dat race

he is very fass but day dont lik his name much i tink dime bag wus a good name

Posted by: Johnny_G

quote:
Originally posted by CUZ'n
b nice papa cuz i hav a piktur of u an dat gurl dem guys at dat donut ship wil mak fun of u:grr an it wasn my skale

an my hors wernt alowd in dat race he is very fass but day dont lik his name much i tink dime bag wus a good name

And dime bag smokes em down the stretch.........
ROTFLMFAO

LOL

Posted by: Pappy

ROTFLMGDAO

you all have my stomach hurting and tears are falling....lmfao popo dont tell me those are "on the job" excuses youve been given

thats too funny not to be real

Posted by: Ryan

Good Thread.

I think whats holding us amatures back is that we sit on are asses all day playing Atv Fury thinking were actually getting faster

Posted by: Lasher

One thing that I noticed that no one mentioned is instincts.

I learned this from playing hockey.

If you have to think about what you would do, it is already too late. You must practice, and practice the correct technique over and over again until the action becomes instinct.

This way when you see something on the track or on the trail, your brain reacts without thought. The more you have to think on the track, the slower you will be.

Last year I had a chance to watch guys like Doug Gust ride the same track on the same day that I did. One thing I noticed is that they never seemed to hesitate. They just did it.

Look at the example of the fallen tree where the pro rider back tires were 3 feet off the ground. We all said that this would cause some type of "thought" reaction to the situation. What did the pro do? Nothing just kept going like it never happened.

Was it because of the quad? Nope.
Was it from his job? Nope.
Was it from he has no fear? Nope
He just reacted to the situation, therefore not allowing thought (or fear) to enter his mind. I bet if you asked him about that moment he would not even remember it happened.

Oh, hand eye cordination is a very important aspect of any sporting event. And one of the best things for hand eye cordination is video games. So play on...

Posted by: 400EXrider#91

for me the slower rider that i am, i practice on a small mx track that is very rough. but i made it that way because when i get out on the track and its rough you don't wanna not be able to handle it. as said before i try to keep it smooth but push myself to the limits. a couple of weeks ago i went to the budds creek national and i was talking to dana creech and he said no mather what your on you got to know where you bikes gonna do when pushed to limits. also he got to the point where the rider is 95% of the win becuase YOU have to know what to do and when to do it.

thats just my outlook on things

Posted by: 440EX4me

quote:
Was it because of the quad? Nope.
Was it from his job? Nope.
Was it from he has no fear? Nope
He just reacted to the situation, therefore not allowing thought (or fear) to enter his mind. I bet if you asked him about that moment he would not even remember it happened.

Good point.

If you have to think that takes up time, and that can be more time for some of us.

quote:
i was talking to dana creech and he said no mather what your on you got to know where you bikes gonna do when pushed to limits. also he got to the point where the rider is 95% of the win becuase YOU have to know what to do and when to do it.

So i guess you have to figure what you need to do in every possible situation and then make it a thoughtless process.

Good info

Posted by: 440EX4me

Posted by: Sick0

:devil

Posted by: anywhereEx

dem sob's is crazy

Posted by: speedy400

this should go in the faq forum, this post may be one the most usefull info i've read for a #ella long time-darren

Posted by: Doibugu2

quote:
Originally posted by speedy400
this should go in the faq forum, this post may be one the most usefull info i've read for a #ella long time-darren

2nd that

Posted by: Castor-426ex

what seperates pros from amateurs?

testicular fortitude

Posted by: 440EX4me

quote:
Originally posted by Castor-426ex
what seperates pros from amateurs?

testicular fortitude

Figures it would be castor

Posted by: Pappy

quote:
Originally posted by Castor-426ex

testicular fortitude

Posted by: Castor-426ex

hey its the truth....

you gotta have balls or no brains...or an equal amount of both

cmon lenny...did i offend you?

wtf

Posted by: 440EX4me

quote:
testicular fortitude

Just funny thats all

Guess you have a way with words, geez :blah

BTW no offense taken

And thats a good eye Pappy

Posted by: RIDER11X

quote:
Originally posted by 400grl
As an amateur, I can tell you where I am lacking - and what is holding me back from being faster than I am.......my need to walk away from a race and go home to my kids is usually greater than my need to get that trophy - although, somehow, I still get a lot of trophies.....

I only get to practice 1-2 times a week (4-5 hours at a time) - so my seat time isn't that great. I work in a cushy office all day, so there goes any advantage I would have as far as on the job conditioning goes (have to make up for it after work in the weight room) - and the last words ringing in my ears before I line up for my motos are my kids saying "just please don't crash Mommy!"

So.....I've got lots of strikes against me. However, what this HAS done is made me ride smarter - and I find that if I do that, I am still winning races - I am not the fastest in my class many times, but being fast doesn't matter if you wad up in the braking bumps - or try to pass through a shut door, or overshoot that first turn.

I think there are fast riders out there, and there are smart riders out there, but what really takes a rider far is if they are fast, smart, and just plain WANT it more than everyone else in their class.

Just my .02!

Well said. I races arenacross for one whole season, and got out of it after being landed on twice. I faced the fact that I MUST get to work monday, so something had to change. I still would like to do some XC though.
Riding with riders faster than you, and in better shape than you also makes you faster. I ride with a guy that has a piped Raptor that he can really run, and I must push myself to a higher level to run with him. He is also in better shape than me, and I learned a few secrets to riding with less energy exerted, so I could hang in there longer.

Posted by: roostin_dale

As a 15 year old kid, i have many dreams that will most likley NEVER come true! All i want to do is win pro nationals, just one year(yea right)! Even though i know it'll never happen i keep trying and never give up!

Here is what I think:

1)Dont be scared! Try new jumps and obsticles(sp). Just remember....take big risk, get big results.

2) DESIRE!!!!! Have a lotta heart and soul!

3)Practice, most people say this doesnt play a big roll. But a lot of pro's practice a minimum of 3 days a week. For about 2 hours a day. And that is a minimum.

4)Goals. You have to set goals for yourself and take it one small step at a time. If you set to big of goals for you to reach then you'll just get frustrated and want to give up! A little at a time man!

5)Exercise. A lot of pro's say weights are bad. I try to do pushups, situps, and a little weights. I also try to run a mile a day..3 days a weeks. You need to stay in shape.

6)Love...you have to love the sport and want to win! You need to stop at nothing and never give up on dreams!

7)Study...study pro's secrets. Watch racing video's and study the pro's moves...

I know im only turning 15...but i have HUGE dreams that i know i will never accomplish.....but im gunna try my hardest, even if people do laugh at me(which most of you probably will)