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Dual Battery box
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Posted by: watts16

Is anyone making or selling a batterybox that hold 2 batteries up under the hood?

Posted by: snacob14

This setup is absolutely awesome. Duane Johnson and Bryan Hulsey both run these. Dirtworks is an awesome shop to work with too, really good guys over there.

Posted by: ridin'MX365

i'm sure this is a dumb question, but why do you need two batteries?

Posted by: Sjorge300EX

quote:
Originally posted by ridin'MX365
i'm sure this is a dumb question, but why do you need two batteries?

beacause one battery isnt enough to get the quad started fast enough for a dead engine start. Having two batterys makes it fire faster than the kick start versions of the bike, BUT it adds lik e4 or 5 more pounds.

Posted by: Scro

The box up front is fairly easy to make. The batteries will sit side by side in the frame between the shock mounts. Fab up a box big enough for the batteries. I made mine just a shot bigger, so I could fit some pieces of rubber between the box and the batteries. For the CDI, you will need to weld the CDI mounting bracket to the back of the box (which will face toward the steering stem). I had to grind off a couple tabs on the bracket so it would mount flush on the box.

I also welded the tabs for starter solenoid to the front of the box. It would probably be mounted somewhere else, but I figured this would be the easiest place.

The box is mounted to the frame using two holes that held the CDI bracket on originally. You could probably fab up some extra support using the lights bracket, but the two bolts alone held mine in place. Before you drill the holes in the bottom of the box, you will want to fit the CDI in, and make sure you drill the holes in the correct position so the CDI will clear the stem. I had about 1/4" clearance between mine.

For me, the hardest part was relocating all the wiring up front. But once you do, it really makes the rearend look alot better. This setup will also clear the stock hood, and Laker Customs hood. I haven't tried any others, but I would assume they would as well.

Posted by: SHIFTx450

... but you can't use the headlight with this setup

Posted by: Scro

No. But if you need the 24 volts for XC starts, chances are you aren't going to need the light anyway.

Posted by: airmobile101

quote:
Originally posted by snacob14
This setup is absolutely awesome. Duane Johnson and Bryan Hulsey both run these. Dirtworks is an awesome shop to work with too, really good guys over there.

Yea, thats if you want to pay $200.00 or more for it. Thats a tad bit out of my price range.

Posted by: watts16

Thanks for the pics and setup scro helped out alot. Going to make something up this weekend.

Posted by: snacob14

quote:
Originally posted by airmobile101
Yea, thats if you want to pay $200.00 or more for it. Thats a tad bit out of my price range.

do it right, do it light

Posted by: Scro

quote:
Originally posted by snacob14
do it right, do it light

Mine was done right with $70 and a little time.

Posted by: snacob14

i'm not saying what you did was bad at all. but you can't compare that welded aluminum box to something any of us normal people (non fabricators) could fab up in our garage. all i'm saying is if you don't have the option of making stuff yourself, then that is a great option. I'm a cheapo myself. i just made my own rear rotor gaurd out of some 3/16 material I had in my shop. U do what you can do.

Posted by: watts16

Ill be able to fab something up. Work in a cnc machine shop.

Posted by: airmobile101

quote:
Originally posted by snacob14
do it right, do it light

I'm willing to bet mine is lighter than the Dirtworks setup is.

Posted by: mc_racer

I got you beat.

Posted by: airmobile101

You know, I always wondered if you could some how install a capacitor instead of a battery. Kinda like a battery booster.......

Posted by: mc_racer

Mine has a capacitor, don't the ERs have them also?

Posted by: airmobile101

No, Im not meaning like that. I talking a 24volt punch when you hit the start button. I sent yea a PM.

Posted by: FlewByU352

zip ties... lmao

Posted by: airmobile101

quote:
Originally posted by FlewByU352
zip ties... lmao

LOL, Been there, done that!

Posted by: Colby@C&DRacing

We have tried several setups and found the std 24 volts works the best. A capacitor is more of a stabilizer and a power filter it doesn't increase the starters speed. We have been using a 24 volt setup on my wifes 450er for 3 years and it works flawlessly

Posted by: watts16

quote:
Originally posted by FlewByU352
zip ties... lmao

lol they always work though. at least for a little bit

Posted by: John Noftsinger

what about a raptor battery? or something with higher starting amps?

Posted by: Scro

More cranking amps doesn't cure the issue. A bigger battery will allow you to crank for longer periods of time, but until you turn the motor over faster (24v) , it's not going to crank any better.

Posted by: troybilt

Why not use Lithium ion? At 24V would weigh less than one battery, easy.

http://www.ebattonline.com/

or, if you have a little bit of inginuity can build this youself. The batteries that are used are A123 batteries which is what is found inside Dewalt LiPo battery packs... Just make sure you use the BMS system that is already in the dewalt packs. Can be placed anywhere.

shyt ton of information here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/

I'll keep you posted, I'm building my own for my ER this winter.

Posted by: SHIFTx450

quote:
Originally posted by troybilt
Why not use Lithium ion? At 24V would weigh less than one battery, easy.

http://www.ebattonline.com/

or, if you have a little bit of inginuity can build this youself. The batteries that are used are A123 batteries which is what is found inside Dewalt LiPo battery packs... Just make sure you use the BMS system that is already in the dewalt packs. Can be placed anywhere.

shyt ton of information here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/

I'll keep you posted, I'm building my own for my ER this winter.

I've been thinking this whole time, there's gotta be a way to just use ONE better battery, as opposed to using 2 big Donkey batteries.. Like a battery from a streetbike or something. Keep us updated on how you make out with the LiIon...

Posted by: Scro

I think the problem you run into with Lithium Ion is charging. I believe you have to have a special charging system for them. The stock alternator wouldn't be able to charge it.

If you are that worried about weight, a kicker would have been a better choice for you. And honestly, most people won't be able to tell the difference between a kicker and e-start, much less just adding one 8 pound battery to the e-start.

Ryan Lane uses the 24v setup, and switched to kicker just to see if there was any difference in overall weight and weight distribution. He ran it one time, and decided the difference in weight wasn't enough to give up the faster starts that the 24v could offer. From my math, he shaved close to 22 pounds off.

If a pro can't tell the difference in 22 pounds, the average joe isn't going to feel the difference in 8.

Posted by: SHIFTx450

The weight wasn't my concern, its the idea of having 2 instead of one. I just bought an aluminum airbox with battery relocate kit, it moves it all inside the box because I like the clean look. And with this idea, the thought of squeezing another battery under the hood just doesn't seem appealing to me. I personally think it looks like crap..

The website mentioned above states that their batteries use the stock charging system. I'm still skeptical myself. They also also a $150 battery with twice the cranking amps as the other one.

Posted by: Dave400ex

This setup is nice, however I've seen several kickstarters with a Rekluse start just as fast or faster than the 24 volt setup

Posted by: Scro

quote:
Originally posted by SHIFTx450
I personally think it looks like crap..

Good thing you can't see anything when the plastics are on.

Posted by: Scro

quote:
Originally posted by Dave400ex
This setup is nice, however I've seen several kickstarters with a Rekluse start just as fast or faster than the 24 volt setup

I think it just boils down to what you are more comfortable on. They can both start just as fast as the other with the right person.

I do think the kicker is more reliable, as far as starts go. Seems like 80% of the time a 24v setup will fire right up in gear. The other 20% is a hit or miss if it will fire on the first revolution.

Posted by: airmobile101

quote:
Originally posted by Dave400ex
This setup is nice, however I've seen several kickstarters with a Rekluse start just as fast or faster than the 24 volt setup

Very true! I'm just too old to be kicking that damn thing during a race. Pressing a button is alot easier

Posted by: troybilt

quote:
Originally posted by Scro
I think the problem you run into with Lithium Ion is charging. I believe you have to have a special charging system for them. The stock alternator wouldn't be able to charge it.

If you are that worried about weight, a kicker would have been a better choice for you. And honestly, most people won't be able to tell the difference between a kicker and e-start, much less just adding one 8 pound battery to the e-start.

Ryan Lane uses the 24v setup, and switched to kicker just to see if there was any difference in overall weight and weight distribution. He ran it one time, and decided the difference in weight wasn't enough to give up the faster starts that the 24v could offer. From my math, he shaved close to 22 pounds off.

If a pro can't tell the difference in 22 pounds, the average joe isn't going to feel the difference in 8.

Most of the issues with charging are overcharging or drawing the batteries down too far. You run the risk of literally an explosion. But like all LiPo batteries that have battery management system (BMS) built into the battery pack that keeps this from happening. That's the part that makes me leary on the EBatt solution, is I don't see the BMS on the packs. Looks like a computer chip...

Even simiplier solution: Would be if you are just using the quads primarily for racing were you start them a handful times a day or so. Why do you even need a charging system? Couldn't you just pull them out bw. events or at night and charge them like on a Dewalt charging system, as a crued example? Just a thought I had. I don't race, but was wondering this.