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Switching from honda to kaw?
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Posted by: affrica450

My main concern is that the kfx450 is 44 lbs heavier than the honda... Do you guys notice a difference in how the kaw carries itself in the air? Motocross purposes only.

Posted by: livetoride

I've ridden the 450r, ltr, yfz, and kfx all of witch were set up for mx. the ltr felt way to heavy for my liking. the kfx, yfz, and 450r all felt really good in the air, but I liked the way the kfx flew over the 450r and yfz it just felt a little lighter and more nimble in the air than the others.

Posted by: MtnEX

Make sure you are not comparing the KFX curb weight (ready to ride) to a dry weight.

This bike is pretty darn light... a lot lighter by far than my 400EX.

Posted by: hondaracer_34

I road my friends trx450r on the track before i bought my Kawi and the 450r seems heavier to me, not as flickable in the air, and the suspension is not as good. The kawi is very nimble, light, and can easily be corrected in the air. I love this thing for motocross. Goodluck on your pick bro.

Posted by: sparks 450

dont do it

Posted by: JParisi48

quote:
Originally posted by sparks 450
dont do it

DO IT!!! i love my kawi

Posted by: hondaracer_34

DO IT haha you wont be making a wrong choice. Any 450 is good and every one of them have their goods and bads. Just whatever your comfortable on bro.

Posted by: JParisi48

true, thats the main reason i got a kawi, i am a honda fan but i felt more comfortable on it, kawi is my second behind honda though

Posted by: rollie

the thing that would come to my mind is its easier to pump alot of horsepower out of a honda, the kawi's usually arent as fast, aside from that i think the kawi is a real nice, reliable bike and the geometery is great.

BTW i ride a honda

Posted by: MtnEX

quote:
Originally posted by rollie
the thing that would come to my mind is its easier to pump alot of horsepower out of a honda, the kawi's usually arent as fast, aside from that i think the kawi is a real nice, reliable bike and the geometery is great.

BTW i ride a honda

Cheaper > maybe...
Easier > I doubt it...

There is really a lot left to be had out of the Kawi 450 mill. It's in a very mild state of tune.

The Kawi also has the response of the fuel injection on it's side. There are no "off spots" anywhere in the throttle range ever, which is nice, and the response really is much crisper. But to be real honest, I don't care for the complexity of it myself. I'd rather have a carb at this point.

But where the real gap exists is in the ergonomics, geometry, front end design and handling. It's better than the 250R, which I thought I'd never get to say. So that's a really big gap to bridge.... even bigger if you are a woods rider and need to stay this narrow.

Posted by: fmfhonda250r

i made the switch for 3 races and switched back, i like my kawi but the honda is just a better bike for me. Better handiling,lighter,MORE power , it's all what you think you want and what feels best for you

Posted by: MtnEX

quote:
Originally posted by fmfhonda250r
i made the switch for 3 races and switched back, i like my kawi but the honda is just a better bike for me. Better handiling,lighter,MORE power , it's all what you think you want and what feels best for you

Yeah... it's gotta be a lot about personal preference and ride or race type with a LOT OF PEOPLE.

I wanted to buy a TRX450ER for the price and due to the price. But I could not MAKE myself do it...

The main reason was the handling and ergos.

My brother-in-law has one I have ridden, and I just couldn't. My old 400EX handles much better and feels much better for my riding.... and neither is close to my KFX 450R.

I bought the Kawasaki on the handling and ergos over the others.

Posted by: Pack

A Honda 450 is slower than a KFX 450. A friend of mine can beat Hondas all day on his Z400 bored out to a 440, but not really any other 450.

Hondas are also heavier, and I just don't like the way they ride. I've been on a few, and I'm just not a big fan. The two KFX450s I've rode, I absolutely loved.

By the way, I ride Yamaha. But between the two, I'd definitely go with a Kawasaki over Honda, and I'm not just "anti-Honda".

Posted by: sparks 450

quote:
Originally posted by Pack
A Honda 450 is slower than a KFX 450. A friend of mine can beat Hondas all day on his Z400 bored out to a 440, but not really any other 450.

Hondas are also heavier, and I just don't like the way they ride. I've been on a few, and I'm just not a big fan. The two KFX450s I've rode, I absolutely loved.

By the way, I ride Yamaha. But between the two, I'd definitely go with a Kawasaki over Honda, and I'm not just "anti-Honda".

look on the kawi webpage the DRY weight of the kfx 450 is 394.7 the honda kickstart WET with all fluids is 381. the e-starts WET weight on the honda is 388. stock power they are very close. just facts not my opinion.

Posted by: 08mxkfx

Hondas are heavier im positive!

Posted by: sparks 450

quote:
Originally posted by 08mxkfx
Hondas are heavier im positive!

look for yourself on kawi web page and on hondas web page. f. i makes the bike heavy compared to carb

Posted by: 08mxkfx

i dont need to look for myself i know it is. Honda is either lying about there weight or something.

Posted by: 08mxkfx

and the 397 is wet weight for the kawi cause dry weight it is 364

Posted by: sparks 450

quote:
Originally posted by 08mxkfx
and the 397 is wet weight for the kawi cause dry weight it is 364

394.7 is the listed dry weight by kawi. hondas wet weight for the kicker is 381 . FACTS ARE FACTS.

Posted by: 08mxkfx

facts are that manufactures lie.

Posted by: sparks 450

quote:
Originally posted by 08mxkfx
facts are that manufactures lie.

could be true. I hope they are really 450s. just kidding.

Posted by: JParisi48

hondas are lighter, they weigh 350 dry and kawi weighs 364, and a stock 450r is just about the same as any other 450 out there, i think the kfx has more bottom end though...

Posted by: MtnEX

quote:
Originally posted by sparks 450
394.7 is the listed dry weight by kawi. hondas wet weight for the kicker is 381 . FACTS ARE FACTS.

Nope... not when you are wrong...

Kawi only publishes wet weight / curb weight.

Full of all fluids, ready to ride.

I can assure you it is considerably lighter than my 400EX... even in full aftermarket gear.

My arms and back don't lie to me and don't care at all what the MFG's want to publish. They can feel a serious difference when lifting.............

The good part is though that I don't have to lift it up to turn it around or pull it backwards when there is no other choice. I just press a thumb lever on the bars and shift down into REVERSE.

Posted by: sparks 450

I am not talking about a 400ex, we are talking about the 450s. these are fact not something i made up. for the last time if you dont believe what the kawi & hondas official web pages list there weights at then i guess you can just make up what ever weight you want them to be. If you lift the two bikes one after another you can clearly tell the honda is lighter. the reverse and electric start is nice but it come with added weight to the bike.

Posted by: MtnEX

quote:
Originally posted by sparks 450
I am not talking about a 400ex, we are talking about the 450s. these are fact not something i made up. for the last time if you dont believe what the kawi & hondas official web pages list there weights at then i guess you can just make up what ever weight you want them to be. If you lift the two bikes one after another you can clearly tell the honda is lighter. the reverse and electric start is nice but it come with added weight to the bike.

OK... but if you want to talk FACTS....
Then you better have the facts straight...

The spec is wet v/s dry...

Here's a couple of links to get your facts straight with.

397.4 Curb
http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/pr...ons.aspx?id=331

364 Dry
http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/pr...ons.aspx?id=211

Both are safe numbers too, because you know the KFX has been double checked since it came out all aluminum.

Now, the dang funny part is that the Honda 450 shares the same dry weight. But somehow it magically ends up weighing less wet (curb weight).

What is also funny is my 400EX is supposed to weigh 375. That's why I compared it... I have both and have lifted both.

Anyways, I'll take an aluminum chassis, aftermarket bars, reinforced wheels, electric start w/battery, and reverse any day.

Yes, these things add a few pounds, but nothing near what many of us add with aftermarket parts, like bars, wheels, skids, nerfs, bumpers, etc... Some of these are included in the weight of the KFX already because it comes with them.

A few pounds is easier to ride with than 383 pounds is to manhandle it a tight situation.

Posted by: sparks 450

lighter engine, less oil, lighter frame, no elec on the kicker to name a few reasons why the 450r is lighter than the 400ex. the wet weight of the 400ex is 408 pounds according to hondas web page. the wet weight of the 450r is 381 and the 450er is 388. like you said the WET weight of the kawi is 394.7. the honda 450r and er is lighter than the kawi. and you dont have to worry about f.i. and electical problem like many top pros and average joes are having with f. i. bikes. sounds like you have a pretty sweet bike. my brother in-law also has one too, hes pretty happy with it

Posted by: sparks 450

I wasn't trying to make the case that the Honda is the best quad but that it is lighter.

Posted by: JParisi48

quote:
Originally posted by sparks 450
I wasn't trying to make the case that the Honda is the best quad but that it is lighter.

the honda is lighter, i have a 450r and a kfx450 in my garage right now lol...but seriously get whatever you feel more comfortable on, you cant feel a difference in weight at all, my kawi handles amazing, better than a stock 450r...

Posted by: fmfhonda250r

I have both. Both are full mx bikes and the honda is quite a bit lighter. They are both great machines but facts are facts and my scale doesn't lie and always has said the kawi is 15 lbs heavier

Posted by: MtnEX

Well, I was going to load mine up and take it over where I know there is a certified scale and weigh it just to see what the real is... but then I realized I've already added a lot of pounds to mine with aftermarket stuff.

So now I wish the weight issue had came up when mine was still bone stock.

In my opinion though, even if it IS a 15 lb difference, I don't care. All the features the KFX already has is well worth even that weight.

Aluminum frame, reinforced rims, aftermarket FatBars, battery, electric start, reverse, fuel injection.... it's worth even 15 lbs easy....

Kicking it over and pushing it backwards is for the birds... for most riders I think.

Posted by: RIDEREDson

quote:
Originally posted by MtnEX
Well, I was going to load mine up and take it over where I know there is a certified scale and weigh it just to see what the real is... but then I realized I've already added a lot of pounds to mine with aftermarket stuff.

So now I wish the weight issue had came up when mine was still bone stock.

In my opinion though, even if it IS a 15 lb difference, I don't care. All the features the KFX already has is well worth even that weight.

Aluminum frame, reinforced rims, aftermarket FatBars, battery, electric start, reverse, fuel injection.... it's worth even 15 lbs easy....

Kicking it over and pushing it backwards is for the birds... for most riders I think.

Didnt you say you dont trust your kawi in a cross country race?

Posted by: MtnEX

quote:
Originally posted by RIDEREDson
Didnt you say you dont trust your kawi in a cross country race?

Yes, it's true my Kawi has been riding the pine since I got it.

I had to wait on skid protection, etc, and during the process I ran it through break-in but it didn't begin to start and run better like they said it would. But I also was not getting any EFI codes thrown. So I did not know rather to trust riding it since that controls the fuel instead of jets.

I like the fuel injection, but it comes at the cost of complexity over carbs and jets.

It's in the shop right now using that 12 month warranty.
I'm pretty sure it's just a bad sensor.

I'm old school and prefer 2 strokes and carburetors.
Things have changed though, and some of it is good.
I'm just slow to accept it because it's gotta win me over.

Posted by: RIDEREDson

Some kid on here (dont know his name right off hand). Had a brand new kfx blow up on him.

Posted by: JParisi48

im sure a guy had a brand new honda blow up on him 2.....that doesnt mean anything.....

Posted by: rollie

quote:
Originally posted by JParisi48
im sure a guy had a brand new honda blow up on him 2.....that doesnt mean anything.....

Haha agreed, but obviously different bikes will suit differnet people/riding styles, thats why they make more than one!, im all for discussing the differences of the brands but man people get awfully defensive

Posted by: MtnEX

Yes they sure do...

I think Honda has the most loyal following ever too.
I can see why too.

I own and love a Honda as well.

I think the difference is that I'm a little different breed of owner. I like what I like, but I have no brand loyalty.... at all.

I've owned some of every brand and currently own 3 different brands. I've liked each for what they are, but also I've accepted each for what they are.

I think the loyal Honda guys have a little trouble accepting that times have changed. I know I do, and I'm not loyal.

Here is how I see the whole ATV world...

KTM is king of sport, and expensive but worth the price. No other product line as a company though.

The KFX is the next best thing overall, and was a NO-BRAINER for me at the price. Tops the KTM in a lot of areas and I had a lot of money left to catch up in the other areas. Kawasaki is probably weakest across the whole product line offering though.

Yamaha is tops when considering the whole product line offering. They come out swinging for the fences on every model they produce and it shows across their whole line. Even though I've moved another direction, I have to admit that and respect that.

Suzuki has some real nice offerings and advancements... but seems to be focusing too much in small areas of the market.

Can-Am is all about getting specialized with their offerings and I like that. More or less opposite of Suzuki. But they are short on the following, and still need to work more on the products.

Honda is sticking with the tried and true, and making good models. They also have the best following. But I think they are allowing the rest of the market to pass them by with new development.

Posted by: sparks 450

yamaha comes out swinging but they dont make a quality bike to begin with. 1st year shee single a- arms changed that, raptor 2001 massive tranny failure, 2004 yfz charging problems, oiling problems,head problems,yamaha makes them better after a few years. thats what happens when you rush things. can- am just look at the list of recalls on there forum. kawasaki has had alot of elec-efi problems. suzuki has a big problem with losing third gear on the 450s. ktm seems to be a good bike but it is very $$. you could do some serious mods to the other bikes for that price. get the development out of the way before you release it to the public

Posted by: MtnEX

quote:
Originally posted by sparks 450
yamaha comes out swinging but they dont make a quality bike to begin with. 1st year shee single a- arms changed that, raptor 2001 massive tranny failure, 2004 yfz charging problems, oiling problems,head problems,yamaha makes them better after a few years. thats what happens when you rush things. can- am just look at the list of recalls on there forum. kawasaki has had alot of elec-efi problems. suzuki has a big problem with losing third gear on the 450s. ktm seems to be a good bike but it is very $$. you could do some serious mods to the other bikes for that price. get the development out of the way before you release it to the public

I agree...

But at the same time, I wonder how long Honda can get by building basically the same models 10-20 years...

I think development is too on the move today.
They can't do that anymore without getting left behind.

Posted by: sparks 450

quote:
Originally posted by MtnEX
I agree...

But at the same time, I wonder how long Honda can get by building basically the same models 10-20 years...

I think development is too on the move today.
They can't do that anymore without getting left behind.

they will get the bike straight before they release it to the public. good things will come to those who wait,have patience. it is on the way

Posted by: JParisi48

this thread just turned into disaster, where did the guy who made this thread even go haha?

Posted by: 3leggeddog

i was looking to read some good info in the difference is these two machines,instead found myself reading a soap opera pissing match,WTF guys?

Posted by: MtnEX

quote:
Originally posted by 3leggeddog
i was looking to read some good info in the difference is these two machines,instead found myself reading a soap opera pissing match,WTF guys?

Well, when you start pointing out the differences, that's what it turns into on a forum.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I'm probably as balanced and fair of a guy as you will find on this subject... I like and own both Honda and Kawi... and Polaris too... and in the past I have owned Yamaha and Suzuki as well. So I have no brand loyalty issues.

The bottom line is, these are the only areas where Honda has the advantage over the Kawi when it comes to 450R's. (In Order of Importance)

1- More people ride the Honda and almost nobody rides the Kawi

2- The Honda offers a lot more simplicity for the average Joe... if something goes wrong with the bike

3- The aftermarket support pretty much mirrors what I said in #1.

4- Dead engine starts are quicker on the Honda (if you race).

And that is it that I can think of. Every other aspect I bring to mind the Kawi is superior.

That's the bottom line.

In the end, I like the TRX450R very much... but to be brutally honest, I think Honda did a great job selecting TRX to be the letters for their model lines.... The joke around home here is we call them TReX's... because they are the dinosoars... all of them... and that is the truth. But it does not make them a bad bike either.

Posted by: 3leggeddog

well thankfully we got to take in all you knowledge and wisdom concerning the ATV industry and the sport quads produced.Thank you sir,you are a life saver!

Posted by: affrica450

Thanks guys for all of the good info... I ended up buying Cody Gibson's Kaw built by Walsh that was on here and it runs circles around my honda in every aspect.

Posted by: MtnEX

quote:
Originally posted by affrica450
Thanks guys for all of the good info... I ended up buying Cody Gibson's Kaw built by Walsh that was on here and it runs circles around my honda in every aspect.

I'm glad you were able to wade through all the brand loyalist's jargon to see the truth and make the right decision.

This site started as a Honda forum for EX riders... so it is heavily populated with Honda loyalists... which is good, but sometimes hard to get unbiased answers from.

Sounds like it's a good thing you listened to us instead of them. Cody's bike is awesome!!! Congrats!!!

Welcome to the club! We're a small club, but growing it seems.

Posted by: triple7racing

Curious to no if the Honda was equally equipped like Gibsons Kawi? I have narrowed the choice down to Kawi or Honda but still change my mind daily. HELPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!

Posted by: MtnEX

quote:
Originally posted by triple7racing
Curious to no if the Honda was equally equipped like Gibsons Kawi? I have narrowed the choice down to Kawi or Honda but still change my mind daily. HELPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!

Right now, this year, I think it depends on what you prefer, and what you are going to do with it.

Like for example, if you prefer simple carburetors, don't get a Kawi thinking it's going to be that simple... get a honda.

If you prefer to custom tune by computer without messing with internals, go Kawi...

Stuff like that... yes there is a lot that is very similar between all 450's.... but there is also a lot between Kawi and Honda that is VERY black & white... ya know...