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700xx for XC
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Posted by: Baxter

I am doing XC racing this with hope to race a couple of 6-8 hour enduros next year and wondering whether a 700xx would be ideal.
The 700xx is roughly $900 cheaper than the 525 irs.
The bike would do 80% xc , 10% enduros and 10% mx.

Posted by: hondariderdylan

i imagine with a few mods, it should do just fine

wheels/tires
exhuast
shocks/a-arms
bars/controls
the normal stuff they do to all the other XC quads

its just a matter of time for the aftermarket for it to get up to full strength and we will start seeing them more and more on the track

Posted by: scuzz

Don't waste your time with the 10" tires out there, ESPECIALLY for XC.

Maxxis makes 11" Razors and Douglas makes rear wheels.

Posted by: GE4x4

If you truly want to XC race, the 700xx isn't the quad for it. It more for a wide open area and isn't the best in the tight twisty racing. But if your only racing once in awhile and do more trail rideing, I'm sure the 700xx would make you happy.

Posted by: scuzz

quote:
Originally posted by GE4x4
If you truly want to XC race, the 700xx isn't the quad for it. It more for a wide open area and isn't the best in the tight twisty racing. But if your only racing once in awhile and do more trail rideing, I'm sure the 700xx would make you happy.

Here's a race at Loretta Lynn's that I think the 700xx would have very well at:

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Posted by: Flynbryan19

The XX is not really the right weapon for XC, but anything is capable and can still be fun. Go for it.

Posted by: deathcorefan2

quote:
Originally posted by Flynbryan19
The XX is not really the right weapon for XC, but anything is capable and can still be fun. Go for it.

i agree.
if you are going to be racing or riding a little MX. i would go straight axle, if you want to stay honda the 450r is always a good choice, do not count out the outlaw 525S though. lots of perks without the cost, KTM power, fox shocks, douglas wheels, and razrs stock!

there is also the raptor...im preparing for the flame.

i would say the XX would be decent for XC if you know what you are doing, but i would never take it on a track...never. the only thing i think it would be IDEAL for is desert racing.

the choices i would narrow down to are

Outlaw 525s
Honda 450r
700XX
DS450XC <- if you want to spend the money
Raptor 700r

Posted by: scuzz

quote:
Originally posted by deathcorefan2

the choices i would narrow down to are

Outlaw 525s
Honda 450r
700XX
DS450XC <- if you want to spend the money
Raptor 700r

I'd buy a KTM 525XC used before I'd buy that DS new.

Posted by: deathcorefan2

quote:
Originally posted by scuzz
I'd buy a KTM 525XC used before I'd buy that DS new.

we are talking new right? if we are talking used i would buy a 450r for like 2500 and PUT that much money in it and make it an XC monster.

Posted by: scuzz

No, I was saying that I would take a used 525XC over a new DS450.

My buddy has one and eats everything else up:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/Little%20Sahara/100_6576.jpg

Posted by: Flynbryan19

Besides the fact that the pros have a hard time making the can-am's even finish races.....

Posted by: scuzz

Yeah, that was what I was kind of inferring.

Posted by: deathcorefan2

quote:
Originally posted by scuzz
Yeah, that was what I was kind of inferring.

still think about this for new.

this is the point i am always trying to get across.

polaris is like what 7,399?

and a new KTM is like 9,000?

look at what is already upgraded on the polaris. same motor. just cheaper..and with the money you could spank a ktm.

Posted by: scuzz

quote:
Originally posted by deathcorefan2
still think about this for new.

this is the point i am always trying to get across.

polaris is like what 7,399?

and a new KTM is like 9,000?

look at what is already upgraded on the polaris. same motor. just cheaper..and with the money you could spank a ktm.

I'd be willing to bet an ice cold cherry coke that more people win on KTM's than equally modded Polaris'.

For nearly $1500 you get a better suspension, ergonomics, a WAY better air box and filter design (that still has yet to be fixed by the aftermarket to par of the stock KTM)

Funny thing is that his 17 year old son has the Polaris 525s and the KTM is consistently faster even when they switch drivers.

Here's a video of his sone getting the hole shot and then getting reeled in with the quickness by the KTM:

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://s82.photobucket.com/flash/player.swf?file=http://vid82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/Little Sahara/100_6581.flv"></embed>

Posted by: scuzz

...oh and just to be fair I'll play Devil's Advocate and say that the KTM was running on WAY lighter Skat Tracks and the Polaris was running on molded tires so that might explain the race a little more.

Posted by: deathcorefan2

quote:
Originally posted by scuzz
I'd be willing to bet an ice cold cherry coke that more people win on KTM's than equally modded Polaris'.

For nearly $1500 you get a better suspension, ergonomics, a WAY better air box and filter design (that still has yet to be fixed by the aftermarket to par of the stock KTM)

Funny thing is that his 17 year old son has the Polaris 525s and the KTM is consistently faster even when they switch drivers.

Here's a video of his sone getting the hole shot and then getting reeled in with the quickness by the KTM:

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://s82.photobucket.com/flash/player.swf?file=http://vid82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/Little Sahara/100_6581.flv"></embed>

pros racing has nothing to do with it.
that is mostly rider. the airbox has been fixed [see people's quads in the outlaw section] fox shocks are good enough for me

and i like the egros of the outlaw. the KTM felt cramped to me.

but to each his own, and we are getting off subject.

Posted by: GE4x4

The MSRP of the Outaw is $7400, and the KTM is $10,900. For $3500 you would have no problem beating the KTM.

Posted by: GE4x4

quote:
Originally posted by scuzz
...oh and just to be fair I'll play Devil's Advocate and say that the KTM was running on WAY lighter Skat Tracks and the Polaris was running on molded tires so that might explain the race a little more.

I also believe the KTM is piped and jetted and the Outlaw still has stock exhaust.

Posted by: scuzz

quote:
Originally posted by GE4x4
The MSRP of the Outaw is $7400, and the KTM is $10,900. For $3500 you would have no problem beating the KTM.

Yeah those camaro guys are always saying their cars can be made as fast as a corvette too.

At the end of the day they still have a camaro. :P

Posted by: smo0oth1

quote:
Originally posted by scuzz
Yeah those camaro guys are always saying their cars can be made as fast as a corvette too.

At the end of the day they still have a camaro. :P

lol, Nice

Posted by: GE4x4

quote:
Originally posted by scuzz
Yeah those camaro guys are always saying their cars can be made as fast as a corvette too.

At the end of the day they still have a camaro. :P

I see your bench racing again.

But you can't get the smile off a Camaro's guys face when he beats the Vette. That is priceless. So when I beat KTM's at the races, it's priceless in my book. It would be the same for the 700xx, but nobody races them.

Posted by: scuzz

quote:
Originally posted by GE4x4

But you can't get the smile off a Camaro's guys face when he beats the Vette. That is priceless.

Till he sells the camaro and buys a 'vette.

Every dog does have is day.

quote:
Originally posted by GE4x4
It would be the same for the 700xx, but nobody races them.

You mean like the Baja and desert racing? Not bad for a quad that has barely been released for a full year.

http://race-dezert.com/home/?p=792#more-792

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/fastercaster/2009SF250011.jpg

http://quad.transworld.net/files/2008/08/20/_d3n6857.jpg

Posted by: GE4x4

Well considering the only 700's being raced are factory backed Baja or Desert, then yes, no one races the 700XX. The Dakar was a much tuffer race and had twice as many racers as the Baja, yet no 700xx.

That's because there was no backing from Honda. 3 Outlaw were in the top 9 and a Raptor won it.

Posted by: D Bergstrom

quote:
Originally posted by GE4x4
Well considering the only 700's being raced are factory backed Baja or Desert, then yes, no one races the 700XX. The Dakar was a much tuffer race and had twice as many racers as the Baja, yet no 700xx. That's because there was no backing from Honda. 3 Outlaw were in the top 9 and a Raptor won it.

I plan on racing one in the desert, and I am not factory backed. Just need to have the funds to do it! Hopefully by the end of the year. Plus I figure the longer I wait, dealers will be just about giving away the 08's to get rid of them. You also have to figure that there have not been alot of aftermarket parts released for the 700XX yet, give it another year. I also do not see a bunch of Polaris quads in the desert either. The only one I did see was also factory backed, the 700XX already has a much better record then it. Last I saw, that team is now on a TRX450R.

I do not really think Dakar is a fair comparison. You start preparing for a race like that a year before the race, pretty much after you finish the race. The 700XX was not even out then.

Doug

Posted by: scuzz

quote:
Originally posted by D Bergstrom

I do not really think Dakar is a fair comparison. You start preparing for a race like that a year before the race, pretty much after you finish the race. The 700XX was not even out then.

Doug

Exactly.

Posted by: GE4x4

The Dakar just ended in Jan 09. The 700xx was out long before that. As far as the Polaris Baja racer goes, he wasn't a top racer and his program was more a support racer and not even close to the support Honda's gives to desert racing. Plus, he had a hard time getting top speeds out of the 525. And any who race one know top speed isn't it's strong point. It's a torque engine and not a free rever or long geared. The 700xx is more at home on the desert track, but that's about it. I hope you do well with it.

Posted by: scuzz

They started selling the 700xx at the end of March or early April. I was the second person to buy one within 500 miles of Dallas. (It's OK, I don't want a cookie.)

Posted by: coryatver

wow that pic says it all look at that thing lean over! No way I would get an IRS quad for XC racing. Might be fine for desert where you have some room to sway but when you got trees on both sides rubbing your tires you need something that will stay straight

Posted by: scuzz

quote:
Originally posted by coryatver
wow that pic says it all look at that thing lean over! No way I would get an IRS quad for XC racing. Might be fine for desert where you have some room to sway but when you got trees on both sides rubbing your tires you need something that will stay straight

They have sway bars for IRS, but you don't need them IMO.

Here's the link to the video, Wayne's really hauling butt:

http://quad.transworld.net/2008/08/...ature-trx700xx/

Posted by: D Bergstrom

quote:
Originally posted by GE4x4
The Dakar just ended in Jan 09. The 700xx was out long before that. As far as the Polaris Baja racer goes, he wasn't a top racer and his program was more a support racer and not even close to the support Honda's gives to desert racing. Plus, he had a hard time getting top speeds out of the 525. And any who race one know top speed isn't it's strong point. It's a torque engine and not a free rever or long geared. The 700xx is more at home on the desert track, but that's about it. I hope you do well with it.

Go back and read my post again, you start prep a year BEFORE the race. So if you race in Jan 09, you would have started to prepare for that race at the begining of 2008. I did not see a 700XX untill May of 2008 (Wayne's), I have no idea when they actually made it to the dealers, but it was after that, at least around here. Will there be any 700XX's at Dakar this year? Who knows. I do know I am seeing more and more of them at local riding areas. I do agree though, not sure how a 700XX would do in XC, but since I do not race XC, not really to concerned about it. It kicks butt in the desert though.

We must not be talikng about the same Polaris desert racer either.

Doug

Posted by: deathcorefan2

i thought the outlaw won the dakar?

http://www.atv.info/article.cfm?id=687

and the comment about the camaro. it is ok i would not be ashamed to own an outlaw that could beat a KTM, as long as the back looks good, because that is all that people would see.

anyway, the point in my posts being that the outlaw is a great XC quad. along with the others i listed.

Posted by: Baxter

Back to topic. I have a 05 450R and thought after an hour of 1st and 2nd gear woods riding in a 3 hour cross country that the 700xx was to big and heavy when a renegade 800r and a modded grizzly passed me. the 700xx could do the job and be more forgiving in the woods . The course was 70:30 1/2 :4/5 gears. I am going to keep the 450R for mx and save for 700xx for xc.

Posted by: smo0oth1

quote:
Originally posted by Baxter
Back to topic. I have a 05 450R and thought after an hour of 1st and 2nd gear woods riding in a 3 hour cross country that the 700xx was to big and heavy when a renegade 800r and a modded grizzly passed me. the 700xx could do the job and be more forgiving in the woods . The course was 70:30 1/2 :4/5 gears. I am going to keep the 450R for mx and save for 700xx for xc.

Not to be rude but if a Renegade 800r and grizzly passed you I would lean towards it being the rider.

Posted by: hondariderdylan

quote:
Originally posted by smo0oth1
Not to be rude but if a Renegade 800r and grizzly passed you I would lean towards it being the rider.

heck the poor guy was probably tired from getting beat to death on a sport quad all race and those big comfy utilitys just drove right past him

or he got beat coming out of a corner becuase the other guy didnt have to worry about shifting
with utilitys nowadays i wouldnt be so sure it was him

Posted by: Baxter

Winrow did 20 laps . you should know who he is . I did 14 laps first cross country race.Quite proud of this.renegade and grizzly did 17 laps.

Posted by: GE4x4

quote:
Originally posted by hondariderdylan
heck the poor guy was probably tired from getting beat to death on a sport quad all race and those big comfy utilitys just drove right past him

or he got beat coming out of a corner becuase the other guy didnt have to worry about shifting
with utilitys nowadays i wouldnt be so sure it was him

With equal riders a 450R will beat a utility every time in a xc race. Unless it's a mud fest.

Posted by: Baxter

smoooth muppet ?

Posted by: ccdhowell

Anybody know this guy?

click here for pic

I wonder how well he did at The Titan last weekend.

Yeah, I'm a Raptor racer, no I'm not hating, I almost bought an XX, just trying to see if I want to trade, but my game is XC so I'm trying to follow the progress of development and race reports for the XX.

Posted by: ccdhowell

I know you XX guys are a little intimidated to answer a question from a Raptor 700R racer, I understand, but somebody must have something to say about my question about XC racing an XX.

Anybody know the guy on the XX in the pic in the link from above.

J/K about the Raptor thing................................or was I?

Posted by: scuzz

Not intimidation, but this site (and specifically this forum) move really really slow. I hang out here then any other 700xx owners probably but I'm not much of a racer.

Whoever he was I bet he was glad to get out of that muddy gear!

Also, I wanna know what rear rims he's running...

http://www.atvriders.com/gallery/2009-gncc-06-am-atv-photos/images/CAN_0656.jpg

Posted by: hondariderdylan

whos the magic racer????

Posted by: scuzz

You got me - I'm trying to find out too!

Posted by: hondariderdylan

i would try to find a clean pic of him, and get his number then start looking through the results

i will look around

Posted by: coryatver

thats a pretty slick handlebar mud guard

Posted by: hondariderdylan

you should see some of the quads from up in canada

they have guards running half way up there arms to keep the cold off off them

Posted by: Baxter

Tried looking for a number.I would like to know how he did.
OK best mods for XC.

Posted by: ccdhowell

quote:
Originally posted by Baxter
Tried looking for a number.I would like to know how he did.

You could send a PM to Pappy and see if he remembers how the guy finished, or maybe his number. You could ask him to check it out at this weekend's race to see if he comes back.

Posted by: hondariderdylan

heres another one, not sure if its the same guy though

Posted by: LotusPosition

There were 2 at this weekend's race, one in the AM, one in the PM .

Posted by: 5W0P3

I think the 700xx would do great on a XC event. I dont think its a good mx bike.

That being said, i'd say big3, and a 13t sprocket. Good Tires too! Stronger wheels and nerfs to keep the trees away.

But, if I was already getting beat by a grizzly or a renegade, then i'd be looking at driving lessons first.

Posted by: Baxter

It's my first year doing xc so I am learning as I go along. In my first race I suddenly realised that I had the wrong setup. Race 2 better setup but could be better. I am running a 04 TRX450R stock ignition,HRC cam which needs changing to what I do not know,+2 laegers lt with PEP zp shocks on front std swinger with PEP std shock and Leo Vince exhaust.

Posted by: Flynbryan19

I've seen that fella on the XX at all the GNCC's I've been to this year. I believe hes from Va and runs the local series there as well. He is running VERY wide offset wheels in the rear. More like a standard 3/5 offset for a solid axle quad. I personally don't know how he rides it that wide, but he seems to get it done.

Posted by: RATPACK Z400

whats the cc,s on that class to ride 700xx in, is it 500cc and up?