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04 and below VS. 05 and up?
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Posted by: Cool Guy07400EX

Are the 05's actually slower due to the reverse? I have an 07 and have never rode an 04 or below but I've heard the 04's and below are faster. Is this true?

Posted by: hornetgod13

I've seen threads on this topic before. You'll get mixed opinions depending on which type the person actually has.

I now the internal and external gearing was changed on the 05-and UP models.

Posted by: red_rider_069

o thought hey were same

.. learned somthing new

Posted by: Cool Guy07400EX

quote:
Originally posted by hornetgod13
I've seen threads on this topic before. You'll get mixed opinions depending on which type the person actually has.

I now the internal and external gearing was changed on the 05-and UP models.

Changed in what way?

Posted by: chayes627

i raced two '04 and belows both piped and jetted and i have an '07 at the time only k&n and i beat them by 4 lengths but that could just be rider abilty to

Posted by: XXXRACER165

When my 2001 EX was stock I would clean house on all the new ones.

Posted by: tdmopar59

i go riding with two kids that have an 04 and an 03... mine is an 06... when i was stock i would barely lose to the 04 that had the pipe filter and jets... i could beat the 03 by a lil bit... i had more top end i think... but anyway... the 05 and up gears are different in the trans and the sprockets are a 14/38 and the final drive gear is the same as the 04 and below which uses a 15/38 the 05 and up may be faster but it isnt by much at all.... i also believe they have slightly different timing. Now that my bike has been piped and has the filter new sprockets i wanna race the 04 again to see what happens...

Posted by: hornetgod13

quote:
Originally posted by tdmopar59
the 05 and up gears are different in the trans and the sprockets are a 14/38 and the final drive gear is the same as the 04 and below which uses a 15/38

Check your rear sprocket again.

1999-2004 15F/38R
2005-UP 14F/39R

Internal gearing changed as well.

2005-2008
1st 2.727 (11/30)
2nd 1.789 (19/34)
3rd 1.363 (22/30)
4th 1.080 (25/27)
5th 0.925 (27/25)
Reverse 2.428 (14/21x21/34)

Someone else might have the 1999-2004 numbers so you can compare.

Posted by: Wheelie

99-04 gearing

1st 2.917
2nd 1.938
3rd 1.474
4th 1.182
5th 1.000

Posted by: Cool Guy07400EX

I see.

Posted by: DementeD

quote:
Originally posted by hornetgod13
I've seen threads on this topic before. You'll get mixed opinions depending on which type the person actually has.

I now the internal and external gearing was changed on the 05-and UP models.

its funny u mention this...and right after that people still come in and state it exactly like you said...
if they own that..its faster.. thx for the giggle..i love it..

and im not calling bs on anyones races..however when u have a quad of very similiar specs almost identical..it really comes down to the rider..so therefore u cant really say..UNLESS u go figure out the tranny ratios that are posted with the sprockets that are stock on the bikes...then u can figure out basically which has the higher speed but..still doesnt say which will pull through it faster

now imo..ud think that honda changed the gearing etc to make it better for the powerband of the 400ex engine..this may NOT be true but its what id guess..so maybe itll pull better..

also note that racing a stock 06 vs a close to stock 01 isnt exactly fair..figuring the motor has been beaten on for 5 more years and probably isnt running how it did 5 years previously..

just something to note..
i say someone go figure out the gearing

Posted by: Wheelie

I don't think Honda was changing the ratios to better match the engines output, I think Honda did it for less stress on the EX trans. The primary drive ratio is a touch higher on the newer machines as are the trans gear ratios, with the lower final drive. Less torque on the trans and output shaft with the newer gearing.

Posted by: DementeD

well i was just guessing..but u seem like u have a better guess then me..

so..with the gearing which would u think should be faster?..the older 400s out of the hole and maybe not as much on the top end??

Posted by: FoxHondaRider

Older 400's have more HP due to no reverse. Years back a racer told me "if you get a quad dont get reverse, it will just rob you of horse power." It might be like 2HP which isnt much but its still something

Posted by: tdmopar59

your right about the rear sprocket my fault

lol

Posted by: alping45

How could reverse have any effect on horsepower?

quote:
Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
Older 400's have more HP due to no reverse. Years back a racer told me "if you get a quad dont get reverse, it will just rob you of horse power." It might be like 2HP which isnt much but its still something

Posted by: boosted3g

The theory is that it creates more drag in the drivetrain. Ive never noticed any less power between all of our 400s. Id even say that the 07 is the fastest of the bunch. I obviously cant race myself but on my 07 vs my brothers 04 i could take him everytime. He is more of a motorcycle guy so it dont hold much merit but honsetly i cant feel much difference but its probably related to more than reverse and gears. Its probably the fast that the 07 is newer. The 07 now has engine work so i can no longer compare, if the reverse is hurting power its not showing it on the dyno where i can make 14hp over stock with not a lot of engine work.

Posted by: HondaRaceReady

Stock vs stock, the older ones are faster. But, you can change the external gearing to make the newer ones the same. I've ridden 01's 04's and I have an 07. 07's have way more power in first, but a lot less speed. The solution is to change the front sprocket to +1 tooth and they are the same power and speed.