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Borich & Ballance St. Clairsville OH
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Posted by: JBENSON
What is all this crap i hear about Borich cheating & getting the win taking away from him??? Many other riders took that same line Borich did but they did'nt get penilized by Racer Productions!!! That does not sound fair. If they pentilize Borich they should pentilize every rider that took that line!!! Thats my opinion. What do you think? 
Posted by: Pappy
I understand that Borich has protested the ruling to the AMA and it will be reviewed.
I cant see where Borich or Ballance would risk cheating....its worth to much money to risk racing that way!
Posted by: Groves187
A little Detail would be nice, HAH. havn't herd anything about this.
Nick
Posted by: troyleepred719
quote:
Originally posted by Groves187
A little Detail would be nice, HAH. havn't herd anything about this.
Nick
X2
Posted by: grim one
You take a 300 yard "detour" thats called a cheat, end of story.
Now i'm sure he didnt do it on purpose but than again, why did he not go right to the podium after the race when he was declared the winner?? that makes no sense
bill had him beat the entire race, he should have just taken the second place, and still would have had a chance to beat him at the iron man.
Posted by: Simon MX49
First and foremost, I was there, I ran the morning class, and the fact that cry baby Ballance protested is just flat out rediculous. Him and his cut frame need to get over it. IT was a bottleneck, youre allowed 25 feet on either side, how can they know Borich was over the line? Borich is not stupid, and he's not going to risk his first championship by cutting the track, its just not gonna happen. THe course was really dusty too, and it was harder than hell to see most of the time. ITs bull****, and EVEYONE knew it. Anyone see Bithells face on the poidum? He never cracked a smile, he knew Borich should be on top, and when I walked by, he was there talking to Borich soon as he got off the podium. EVERYONE knows its bull****, they need to overturn the decision, and let them race it out at the Ironman!!!
Posted by: crayfz
Settle down and go read the facts on the GNCC site, not sure Ballance even protested, RP caught it.
I like Chris don't get me wrong here.
Posted by: WOOLIN
It wasn't 300 yards and Bill never protested. John Ayers was standing there filming and saw it happen. Some fans were saying there was a bottle neck and pointed a line to Chris. John Ayers is the one that decided to dock Chris 2 positions. The crappy part is that with no throw aways one bad race can cost you a championship.
Posted by: grim one
This is from the gncc website
Ballance was leading the race until four miles from finish, when Borich was directed by spectators to make a sudden 90-degree turn off of the race track. He missed 300 yards of the course and ended up in front of Ballance at the finish. Borich’s move was captured on tape by a GNCC official shooting video shooting for the Racer TV broadcast, who then alerted the rest of the track crew. Borich was taken back to the track to see the section he missed and was also shown the video tape. The video showed Borich was not riding through a bottle-necked or traffic jammed section of course, thus he was required to stay on the race track through that section, and course arrows clearly showed the track continued straight. The two-position penalty is consistent with the same penalty used by GNCC officials in similar situations in the past. After being told of the penalty, Borich didn’t attend the post-race podium and interview ceremony.
Ballance edges out William Yokley for the ITP Holeshot at the ITP GNCC.
Posted by: joedirt
If RP was there filming why the he!! would they not fix the problem?
How many other riders took the same line?
Penalize everyone... not just one person.
What are the odds that there just happen to be a camera filming at this so called shortcut?
It's like they knew it was going to happen.
Posted by: 465Stroker
quote:
Originally posted by joedirt
If RP was there filming why the he!! would they not fix the problem?
How many other riders took the same line?
Penalize everyone... not just one person.
What are the odds that there just happen to be a camera filming at this so called shortcut?
It's like they knew it was going to happen.
That's the biggest question I think everyone has - was this line new or existing? If it was existing and illegal why was it not roped off by officials?
Posted by: Simon MX49
I kind of have an idea of where they might have been. There were a couple spots down that way where you could have gotten off track. I dont know what happened, but they said Ballance looked like he didnt know how Chris got around him when he finished. And I agree, how come they didnt dock everyone? Its not fair to Chris because it cost him the championship, I think the only way he can win is if Bill DNF's in Indiana.
I dont think its fair, spectators can point you around but they dont know any better. Chris wouldnt give up his shot at the championship by cutting the track. Give Chris the points, let them race it out in Indiana the right way.
Posted by: JAKE YATES
900 FEET IS A HUGE CUT!!!!!!!!! HE HAD TO SEEN HOW MUCH HE WAS CUTTING OFF HE IS NOT A C RIDER,AND YOUR RIGHT CHRIS DOES NOT HAVE TO CHEAT TO WIN BUT HE SHOULD HAVE TURNED AROUND AND CORRECTED HIS MISTAKE.
Posted by: joedirt
It wasn't 900 feet. They just tried to make it sound good.
Posted by: JAKE YATES
300 YRDS IS 900 FEET!!! THATS WHAT IT SAID ON GNCC WEB-SITE. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE VIDEO.
Posted by: joedirt
no crap genius but since nobody actually measured you don't really know unless you were there.
Posted by: JAKE YATES
WHO IS TO SAY THEY DIDNT MEASURE IT. WERE YOU THERE?
Posted by: WOOLIN
turn off you caps dumb ***!!! I was there and it wasn't 900 feet. It was like a switch back and it was maybe 50 yards each way.
Posted by: JAKE YATES
MAYBE YOU SHOULD BE A COURSE OFFICIAL THEN......
Posted by: JBENSON
I just dont think its fair to penalize one rider! Racer Productions needs to be fair & penalize every rider that used that line or give Borich the win back! Its kind of funny that Ballance can run a modified frame when you supposed to run a stock frame! He didnt get penalized for that did he!!!! Thats bull****! Its clear to see whos side they are on!!! Why didnt the track officials have that line marked off? 
Posted by: force
how is ballance's frame modified?
Posted by: joedirt
http://www.atvriders.com/gallery/20...s/KE2F0744.html
It was...he's not using it now.
Posted by: grim one
other people DID in fact get penalized for taking that line
bill didnt even make the protest, RP did
but come on, bill smoked chris all day, and all of a sudden out of nowhere chris has the lead??? yeah ok
Posted by: joedirt
I think your wrong again. from what I heard Chris was on Bill's grab bar on the last lap.
Posted by: JAKE YATES
thats wear we would have stayed if he didnt cut the track!!!!!!
Posted by: joedirt
1 Bill V Ballance 001 YAM 00:28:19 1 00:00:00 00:32:41 2 00:01:15 00:32:42 1 00:00:00 00:33:19 1 00:00:00
2 Chris Bithell 006 HON 00:29:17 6 00:00:07 00:32:24 5 00:00:09 00:32:37 4 00:00:22 00:33:12 2 00:00:29
3 Chris M Borich 002 HON 00:29:10 5 00:00:07 00:32:22 4 00:00:07 00:32:18 2 00:00:08 00:33:43 3 00:00:03
For how bad the dust was Bill should have been able to pull away from both Chris's if he is a faster rider.
Posted by: joedirt
quote:
Originally posted by JAKE YATES
thats wear we would have stayed if he didnt cut the track!!!!!!
Who's "WE"
Posted by: gbcap
quote:
Originally posted by grim one
other people DID in fact get penalized for taking that line
bill didnt even make the protest, RP did
but come on, bill smoked chris all day, and all of a sudden out of nowhere chris has the lead??? yeah ok
he smoked him huh? then how are chris's lap times shorter then bills? just cause bill got a good start and was in the lead most of the race doesn't mean he smoked him.
chris was 10 seconds back on the 3rd lap. and right on his tail the 4th.
i am not going to say he cheated or not. but if specators point me a way, and i think its a decent line. i am going to take it.
and who else got penalized? i want a list. cause i haven't heard of ONE yet.
Posted by: kywoodsrider
Bill got the hole shot was 30 seconds ahead on a very dusty track where having the lead is a huge advantage. Borich was 51 seconds back in 5th at the first lap. The second lap Natalie cuts the track to get in front of Ballance, and purposely tried to hold him up as long as he could. This was a huge disadvantage because Bill had to fight his dust, when he should have been able to check out if he had a clear track. Natalie tried to hold Ballance up as long as he could and when Ballance finale was able to put a move on him Natalie tried to stuff him in the next turn. John new he had cut the track he was brought to do what he did. I have heard that he will not be allowed to race the ironman for what he did in Ohio.
At the same time Borich was making his way up threw traffic by having people "spectator he had placed" stand in fast lines for his competitors then jumping out of the way and waving him threw. This is how he pasted as least 2 of the people going from 5th to 2nd. Borich is unquestionably faster than the people he passes getting to 2nd, but him having advantages in shorter, faster lines allowed him to make those passes much faster then he would have been able to in the extreme dusty conditions. The same time he was having help getting to the front Bill was out front eating dust from Borich's teammate Natalie that was doing his job.
Then the last straw, Borich had spectator placed to help him cut the track because blocking all the fast lines and his blocker Natalie wasn't going to be enough. So the spectators riped down the cause marker waited till Bill goes by, then tell Borich to go this way.
Bill had the deck stack against him this last race and they pulled out every trick in the book. I personal think the penalty was way to light. I hope at the ironman they don't do something to try to take Bill out. What they are willing to do to win has been made very clear.
Posted by: WOOLIN
You can't really be that stupid can you?/\
Posted by: joedirt
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
Bill got the hole shot was 30 seconds ahead on a very dusty track where having the lead is a huge advantage. Borich was 51 seconds back in 5th at the first lap. The second lap Natalie cuts the track to get in front of Ballance, and purposely tried to hold him up as long as he could. This was a huge disadvantage because Bill had to fight his dust, when he should have been able to check out if he had a clear track. Natalie tried to hold Ballance up as long as he could and when Ballance finale was able to put a move on him Natalie tried to stuff him in the next turn. John new he had cut the track he was brought to do what he did. I have heard that he will not be allowed to race the ironman for what he did in Ohio.
At the same time Borich was making his way up threw traffic by having people "spectator he had placed" stand in fast lines for his competitors then jumping out of the way and waving him threw. This is how he pasted as least 2 of the people going from 5th to 2nd. Borich is unquestionably faster than the people he passes getting to 2nd, but him having advantages in shorter, faster lines allowed him to make those passes much faster then he would have been able to in the extreme dusty conditions. The same time he was having help getting to the front Bill was out front eating dust from Borich's teammate Natalie that was doing his job.
Then the last straw, Borich had spectator placed to help him cut the track because blocking all the fast lines and his blocker Natalie wasn't going to be enough. So the spectators riped down the cause marker waited till Bill goes by, then tell Borich to go this way.
Bill had the deck stack against him this last race and they pulled out every trick in the book. I personal think the penalty was way to light. I hope at the ironman they don't do something to try to take Bill out. What they are willing to do to win has been made very clear.
Posted by: kywoodsrider
All you guys can do is name call. What I said was the truth ask people that were involved.
Posted by: WOOLIN
ROTFLMAO
Posted by: WOOLIN
I was there were you?
Posted by: kywoodsrider
Have you spoke to those involved? I have. Have you?
Posted by: WOOLIN
You have to be the dumbest person on this planet. Go get a vasectomy so you can't reproduce and spread it to others. And yes I was there and talked to everyone involved on both sides. So take your screwed up conspiracy theory stick it!
Posted by: joedirt
John Natalie races the last few GNCC's every year and John wasn't the only one that cut the track by mistake. Burrows and Andy took the same trail with John. How would have John known where to cut...he didn't show up at the track till 11:00 sat morning. I really think it happened because nobody could see 6 inches in front of their own quad.
Posted by: kywoodsrider
Wool it is just what happen sorry the truth is uncomfortable to you.
I don't have to call you a dumb *** which you obviously are just to make me feel better.
Posted by: kywoodsrider
Ok you’re wrong. Brandon Ballance made a comment to John before the race of "how much are they paying you". John was so concerned that he went into the Ballance trailer and told them that he would stay out of Bills way and he didn't want it interfere with the championship. Then when Bill is checking out he appears in front of Bill and does all he can to slow him down.
Sound a little to fishy to me.
I was told He can't ride at ironman. Wonder why?
Posted by: joedirt
Who told John he can't ride at Ironman?
Posted by: coryatver
I am wondering if the deal with Natalie holding ballance up helped bring opon the other thing with ballance. If they thought they pulled that move they were probley watching borich close after that.
Posted by: kywoodsrider
Know, I don't think RP realized what had happen till after the race.
I think it was just luck that they were filming their.
Don't take my word for it check but I was told by a very good source that John couldn’t race at ironman.
Posted by: Predator8me
I was there in the mud pit when ballance and borich went by on the last lap. Borich was a good ways behind ballance. Then we went over to the finish line. Borich comes in way ahead of ballance. It seemed a long time before ballance came though. I thought he crashed on something.
Just what I saw. Not trying to stir the pot.
Posted by: joedirt
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
Know, I don't think RP realized what had happen till after the race.
I think it was just luck that they were filming their.
Don't take my word for it check but I was told by a very good source that John couldn’t race at ironman.
You come on here running your mouth and now you say DON'T TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT.
You have no facts.
Run your mouth when you get the facts.
Everything you posted is a bunch of crap with no proof.
Posted by: lancems007
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
Bill got the hole shot was 30 seconds ahead on a very dusty track where having the lead is a huge advantage. Borich was 51 seconds back in 5th at the first lap. The second lap Natalie cuts the track to get in front of Ballance, and purposely tried to hold him up as long as he could. This was a huge disadvantage because Bill had to fight his dust, when he should have been able to check out if he had a clear track. Natalie tried to hold Ballance up as long as he could and when Ballance finale was able to put a move on him Natalie tried to stuff him in the next turn. John new he had cut the track he was brought to do what he did. I have heard that he will not be allowed to race the ironman for what he did in Ohio.
At the same time Borich was making his way up threw traffic by having people "spectator he had placed" stand in fast lines for his competitors then jumping out of the way and waving him threw. This is how he pasted as least 2 of the people going from 5th to 2nd. Borich is unquestionably faster than the people he passes getting to 2nd, but him having advantages in shorter, faster lines allowed him to make those passes much faster then he would have been able to in the extreme dusty conditions. The same time he was having help getting to the front Bill was out front eating dust from Borich's teammate Natalie that was doing his job.
Then the last straw, Borich had spectator placed to help him cut the track because blocking all the fast lines and his blocker Natalie wasn't going to be enough. So the spectators riped down the cause marker waited till Bill goes by, then tell Borich to go this way.
Bill had the deck stack against him this last race and they pulled out every trick in the book. I personal think the penalty was way to light. I hope at the ironman they don't do something to try to take Bill out. What they are willing to do to win has been made very clear.
That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!!!!
But....I just heard Borich is getting a bigger rig so he can bring along more people to jump onto the track in front of his competition........... It's sort of like a schoolbus, but instead of school kids it has a bunch of idiots who are trying to screw Borich's competition out of wins. In fact, I think Natalie might be driving the rig.
The only thing I'm bummed more about is that the oil slick nozzle, smoke screen launcher, and hub mounted tire schredders broke on Natalie's quad. That would have really shaken stuff up!
Posted by: kywoodsrider
I'm not hiding call RP and see. Or call John I don't care that’s just what I was told by a very good source.
JoeDirt you are one to talk about running ones mouth because you are a pro.
The crap has been getting so deep in here that I wanted the truth be known. People are running Bill down when he did nothing but race hard and race fare. I'm sorry you don't like what I have to say I don't like what you say either.
Posted by: kywoodsrider
I'm sure they will do all they can but hopefully everybody will be watching for it at the ironman
Posted by: joedirt
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
I'm not hiding call RP and see. Or call John I don't care that’s just what I was told by a very good source.
JoeDirt you are one to talk about running ones mouth because you are a pro.
The crap has been getting so deep in here that I wanted the truth be known. People are running Bill down when he did nothing but race hard and race fare. I'm sorry you don't like what I have to say I don't like what you say either.
Smoke another one...I never posted anything bad about Bill. It seems you woke up from a bed dream and decided to tell everyone about it.
Posted by: kywoodsrider
OK Joe, but what I have said is what happened ask the people that Borich passed.
That was one crazy race and it all sounds to much to be true but what happen is what happened.
Posted by: gbcap
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
OK Joe, but what I have said is what happened ask the people that Borich passed.
That was one crazy race and it all sounds to much to be true but what happen is what happened.
who are you? and who is your source? untill you post this information you are a phony. if you are 100% true, you won't be afraid to post up who you are. stop hiding behind a screen name.
natalie being paid??? thats a big crock. he always comes to the last races of the year. go back and look.
Posted by: xcracer416
i dont know any of the pro riders personaly. but i do know a xc racers personality. in my opinion (which i wasnt there) i dont think borich would have done that on purpose. the consipracy theory on here is a bunch of horse chit! natalie wasnt paid to screw ballance over, nor did borich have so called people helping him through by using faster lines than all the rest of the class. i run A class in my series, i can assure you that if i see a faster line and a spectator is standing in it, they better get the hell out of the way cause im using that line. i am sure the national pros have this concept in there head also, your theroy is so messed up its actually funny that someone was ballsy enough to come up with this crap and post it on here. i think they should give borich the win back due to track conditions and interferance by spectators. ALSO you said his buddies helped him find the line that he used on accident to get around ballance right? if they was his buddies dont you think they would have seen the racer productions crew there filming? I better let this go before the moderators ban me.
Posted by: grim one
rp didnt want chris to win, they set him up
Posted by: kywoodsrider
I don't think John got paid money but I do think he deliberately held Bill up and deliberately got in front of him.
What are the facts?
1. Ballance Holeshot 30sec lead, 51 second over Borich. Over 2 minutes over Natalie. After 1 lap
2. John cuts big part of track and comes around second lap ahead. Then Slows Bill down for the better part of a lap and then tries to plow into him after Bill pasted him.
3. Spectator stood in Bills way and directed him around a section of the track on the last lap. They then let Borich go threw. This almost resulted in a pass by Borich but Ballance came out just in front. The track was very dusty and Ballance pulled a little gap 10 to 15 sec.
4. Nearing the end of the race Ballance with 15 sec lead. Very dusty condition and very small change of Borich being able to even attempt a pass. Spectators do nothing as Bill goes threw then rip down curse markers and direct Borich to take a short cut. The cut was so sever Ballance never known Borich passes him and doesn’t sees Borich again till the finish line.
These are all facts. I don't understand what you guys are having trouble with.
There is a thing called gravity. and 2 + 2 = 4 these are all facts.
Posted by: joedirt
Posted by: xcyfz450
where did burrows come into the plan then? since he was ahead with natalie? well then its safe to now say bill and chris are both cheaters i guess??? cheater frame and now this
Posted by: kywoodsrider
His frame mods where 100% within the rules. FACT
Borich cut off more than 300 yards off track. FACT
I guess you guys can't handle the truth?
Posted by: xcyfz450
you never answered the burrows part #171 that was with natalie when they missed the course how exactly did he fit it to this diobolical scheme u have stuck in ur head?
Posted by: kywoodsrider
Bill has been doing R&D with Yamaha. They have been testing new things to continuously improve the bike. That is one of the main reasons that factors want to get involved with racing to be able to test and se what works better.
Bill isn't even running the frame any more and Bill won the race. If a racer isn't doing everything within the rules to ensure they have the best bike possible then they are lazy.
Posted by: kywoodsrider
He was behind Natalie and probable just followed him not knowing what he was doing.
Posted by: joedirt
Posted by: xcracer416
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
He was behind Natalie and probable just followed him not knowing what he was doing.
if your a pro in that series you should be knowing what you are doing.
Posted by: joedirt
You have no idea how bad the dust was.
Posted by: kywoodsrider
I have never heard of the guy. He has never finished above 16th so he probably was just happy to be following Natalie.
Posted by: kywoodsrider
One more reason why John blocking Bill is such a big deal.
The dust is the reason Chris had no shot of even tring to pass Bill so he did what he did.
Posted by: joedirt
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
I have never heard of the guy. He has never finished above 16th so he probably was just happy to be following Natalie. He isn't a top flight pro.
You never heard of Michael Burrows? Yet you know so much about everything else going on in GNCC.
Posted by: kywoodsrider
-
Posted by: kywoodsrider
?
Posted by: joedirt
Real close I see.
Posted by: kywoodsrider
Joe it's past my bed time it’s been fun. You keep thinking what you want but look in to what I have put on here. Ask the other riders that Borich passed how he got around them. We will see if Natalie can race ironman.
Posted by: joedirt
You better get to sleep early so you can dream up more mentally insane ideas.
Posted by: burrows
quote:
Originally posted by joedirt
John Natalie races the last few GNCC's every year and John wasn't the only one that cut the track by mistake. Burrows and Andy took the same trail with John. How would have John known where to cut...he didn't show up at the track till 11:00 sat morning. I really think it happened because nobody could see 6 inches in front of their own quad.
I am Burrows mother and joedirt has the true story...If ya don't know the true story stay off of here. That is exactly how the rumors get started and by telling how you have low posts you are just trying to start trouble for the inocent ones. Sorry joedirt to but in but this is really hacking me off. Natalie, Burrows and Andy did not CHEAT... there were no banners, no arrows and with the dust they could not see. If the spectators would of had the courtesy to leave the bannners and markers alone this forum would not be posted. mommab
Posted by: burrows
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
He was behind Natalie and probable just followed him not knowing what he was doing.
Was you born yesterday and still have a pacifier in your mouth> You have no clue what went on that day. Burrows knew what he was doing the spectators didn't know what the heck they were doing and how they were hurting the other racers when they needed a good race. mommab
Posted by: burrows
quote:
Originally posted by joedirt
You never heard of Michael Burrows? Yet you know so much about everything else going on in GNCC.
look at how many posts he has so no he doesn't know what is going on...
Posted by: national425ex
well they say they recorded the footage while shooting for Racer TV. Hopefully they wont edit that shot out and we all can see what really happened. Im excited to see.......
Posted by: my88r
i see borich has been on hear reading all of this. i wish he would tell his side of the story. i like both of them when your at there level things are different than the normal racer. but bill has been complaining. this season has been interesting. i would like to see Barry hawk run with these guys once. i know Barry had his time in and after 7 championships its time to move on to something else. but it would be interesting. i know Barry always watches the quads race which is cool. i still like watching the woods warriors tapes. with young bill because back then it was just aftermarket sponsors. and Barry really only had the backing with tony kellner and laegers.
Posted by: REITER
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
I have never heard of the guy. He has never finished above 16th so he probably was just happy to be following Natalie. He isn't a top flight pro.
Not trying to get in the middle of this, but Mr. Burrows is fast. If you race in the XC1 or XC2 you are considered a pro. Seeing as you let your fingers do your racing, you must be faster
As far as anyone cheating on purpose, that is not the case. I have heard what happened from a XC1 racer and what you are saying is WAY OFF.
Posted by: burrows
quote:
Originally posted by REITER
Not trying to get in the middle of this, but Mr. Burrows is fast. If you race in the XC1 or XC2 you are considered a pro. Seeing as you let your fingers do your racing, you must be faster
As far as anyone cheating on purpose, that is not the case. I have heard what happened from a XC1 racer and what you are saying is WAY OFF.
Thank you.....mommab
Posted by: REITER
quote:
Originally posted by burrows
Thank you.....mommab
Your Welcome. Maybe we should get kywoodsrider to race in the XC1 class at the Ironman.
Posted by: burrows
quote:
Originally posted by REITER
Your Welcome. Maybe we should get kywoodsrider to race in the XC1 class at the Ironman.
He probably doesn't even know how to start one. He would be a danger on the track. First look at some of the hills and he would be yelling for help. lol....some guys just don't know about racing but want to act like they know. Well I better stop with this one...if you are going to Ironman good luck. Michael is going but got to sit this one at home. We are getting things ready for the 12 hr. whooo hoooo. mommab
Posted by: kywoodsrider
I don’t know burrows, and have never said that he cheated I just think he followed someone down the wrong way. Mom I'm not trying to hate on your kid I never tried to insinuate that he intentionally did any thing wrong.
I do think its to fishy how everything went down with Natalie ending up in front of Ballance and then trying to hold him up.
I’m just tired of getting on this site and reading people running Ballance down calling him a cheat and attacking his character when he has done nothing. Then Borich blatantly cheats and has blockers run interference and you guys blame Ballance for protesting him? Borich would not even go to the podium.
I understand how people could be are ready for a change but come on.
Posted by: Johnny & Monica
WOW! I bet a lot of people are going to be looking to introduce themselves to the nice Kentucky boy.
Posted by: kywoodsrider
What does that mean?
Posted by: gbcap
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
What does that mean?
who are you? come out from behind your Fawking screen name and be a man!
Posted by: JAKE YATES
MICHAEL BURROWS IS THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: royh
Ky Boy is just a dumb little punk that no one should take seriously. Ballance and Borich are both great racer, good guys and I bet that they hate like hell what is going on. Neither of them want anything to do with this BS.
Posted by: JBENSON
WOW!!!!! This would make a great Jerry Springer show! 
Posted by: Prey
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
I don’t know burrows, and have never said that he cheated I just think he followed someone down the wrong way. Mom I'm not trying to hate on your kid I never tried to insinuate that he intentionally did any thing wrong.
I do think its to fishy how everything went down with Natalie ending up in front of Ballance and then trying to hold him up.
I’m just tired of getting on this site and reading people running Ballance down calling him a cheat and attacking his character when he has done nothing. Then Borich blatantly cheats and has blockers run interference and you guys blame Ballance for protesting him? Borich would not even go to the podium.
I understand how people could be are ready for a change but come on.
you gotta be the dumbest SOB i have ever seen post... you come on spouting BS "facts" that you got 7th hand from one side of the fence and preach it as if its gospel and you are the new messiah.
you slander natalie, you claim to be all-knowing regarding racing (your 15 second speach, and if you really knew anything at all, you would know that gap between ballance and borich is not even worth mentioning in dust or not), you claim a 300 yrd cut... and better yet.... in your retarded ramblings you claim it all as fact with out fact.
let me help you out, you are a nobody who has been manipulated into these "facts" and you are not smart enough to see past the smoke and mirrors
and if you really knew anything like youre claiming.... you would know ballance has been penalized how many times for cheating in past years?
Posted by: jlhughes750
His post count is increasing!!!
This whole thing is horrible for everyone. Chris is a great guy, I'm sure if your close to Bill he's great too. I've raced hard and made bad decisions. These guys do to. This whole thing is tainted, Bill wins the championship because of it, Chris pulls it off at Ironman and Bill breaks, its all tainted! It all sucks because of conspiracy theorys like kywoodsrider and people posting there opinions!!!
Is an 8 time champ good for our sport??? Is it good for the series?
Could a series or promoter really influence the outcome of an 11 mile 2 hour race?
I'd enjoy reading a forum that would discuss these topics without useless banter from people who have no experience.. Discussions from those of us who have been around XC racing for years and are familiar with Pro level racing. Seems impossible to pull off. I'd reccomend having to apply and be accepted into the thread/forum. A resume with race background, history etc.
Posted by: Simon MX49
I got to page 4 and Im 
. When I came through the mud/hill section at the 3 mile marker Chris was standing there waving me through the fastest line, I made up probably 10 seconds, and passed a good 10 people. Chris doesnt have a bunch of people telling him, he was out there looking at the track during the morning race, he knew where to go for the fast lines. Chris WOULD NOT give up his championship shot, he isnt stupid. He hasnt worked all year to get shot down for cheating, it just doesnt work that way. The protest needs to be reviewed, and they have to put some logic into it, overturn the decision, and let them race at the Ironman. I dont give a damn. ANd Another thing, Natalie was way out in front of Ballance, Ballance caught him. If he couldnt deal with the dust, he shouldve stayed back then. Natalie came by, and 15-20 later Ballance came by. Natalie wasnt slowing up to screw BAllance over. Now youre bashing Natalie, and thats bulls**t, because Natalie is not gonna cheat like that.
WE can all talk all the **** we want, but it aint gonna matter till the AMA reviews the protest, and makes a decision. Quit bashing people. ANd if Bill didnt really didnt say anything or protest it, he would have said forget it, and let Chris have the race win, lets race in Indiana. THe facts dont add up to anyone, and theres no viable reason for not letting Natalie race in Indiana, thats just flat out BULL!!!
Posted by: Simon MX49
The bashing of Ballance and Borich has got to stop, they are both good racers, and no one wants this more than Borich. Both have worked their asses off this season, and they dont deserve to be bashed by people who werent in their shoes. None of us were there, no one saw what exactly happened. I do know Chris was only about 5 seconds off Ballance at about the 2 mile marker on the last lap, and Chris could easily make that up. Quit the basing, and especially leave Natalie out, he had nothign to do with it all. In the 2 years I've been at St. Clairsville, he's been there both times, he's training for the 12 hour race again probably
Posted by: Prey
as was said before, natalie for the last few years has been racing the GNCC after the conclusion of the GNC & WPSA along with Pat Brown who has raced several GNCC's last year and this year....
maybe we can make up some conspiracy theory for him too
to imply any pro of any genre is there to do anything other than race is purely idiotic
Posted by: stumpleg
I'm not going to really argue with anyone, but what's to say there wasn't a bottleneck right before the camera switched to look the right way? I'm sure that the camera followed Borich through there when he "cut" the track (which no one knows for sure. With the camera following this, it may, MAY have allowed enough time for the bottleneck to clear.
I know Michael Burrows would have never cut the track, it just sounds like he was following, and Natalie just happened to take a wrong turn. With all the dust, they may not have been able to see the arrows very well. JMO
Posted by: popo
quote:
Originally posted by JBENSON
WOW!!!!! This would make a great Jerry Springer show!
You started it.
Posted by: IronManNatalie
oh my goodness! I was pretty ....ed off when I first read this, but as I continued on I realized that kywoodsrider is just clueless and just trying to defend his first statement.
I was there. I raced it. I did cut the track. I did it accidentally. Throughout the course of the race there was sections of the track that were changed. After the first lap the whole section after the start was different. After the second lap at ( I think the 7 mile marker) Notice I said think!! they completely took out a right hand turn and added a left to take you a totally different direction. Yeah I got a little confused. Im still not even sure where I cut or how I even got back on the track. I never got in front of Bill and tried to slow him down. Don’t be stupid. I also never tried to ram him. Bill and Chris are both amazingly fast in the woods. They are professionals. I don’t think either one would cheat. Taking a wrong turn is possible. With all the changing of the track it was easy to get confused. Not to mention the worst dust I’ve ever seen! Not to mention the people would stand right in the middle of the track and point you where to go. People need to stay out of the track and let the racers race. It’s their job to find the lines. I think Chris got a bum deal. Its sucks he got caught up in this. As far as the Ironman goes, I will be there, racing to win. I don’t go to block or anything but to race. I always race to win. I always get my butt kicked at gncc’s, but I have fun. Please don’t talk crap unless you know what you are talking about.
Posted by: Johnny & Monica
Thank you Mr. Natalie!!
Posted by: burrows
quote:
Originally posted by IronManNatalie
oh my goodness! I was pretty ....ed off when I first read this, but as I continued on I realized that kywoodsrider is just clueless and just trying to defend his first statement.
I was there. I raced it. I did cut the track. I did it accidentally. Throughout the course of the race there was sections of the track that were changed. After the first lap the whole section after the start was different. After the second lap at ( i think the 7 mile marker) Notice I said think!! they completely took out a right hand turn and added a left to take you a totally different direction. Yeah I got a little confused. Im still not even sure where I cut or how I even got back on the track. I never got in front of Bill and tried to slow him down. Dont be stupid. I also never tried to ram him. Bill and Chris are both amazingly fast in the woods. They are proffesionals. I dont think either one would cheat. Taking a wrong turn is possible. With all the changing of the track it was easy to get confused. Not to mention the worst dust Ive ever seen! Not to mention the people would stand right in the middle of the track and point you where to go. People need to stay out of the track and let the racers race. Its thier job to find the lines. I think Chris got a bum deal. Its sucks he got caught up in this. As far as the ironman goes, I will be there, racing to win. I dont go to block or anything but to race. I always race to win. I always get my butt kicked at gnccs but I have fun. Please dont talk crap unless you know what you are talking about.
thank you very much for clarifying this....mommab
Posted by: stumpleg
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny & Monica
Thank you Mr. Natalie!!
x 2
Posted by: Pappy
Way to lay it out there John! And amen to the dust!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2040/1563797037_ed1ba50f15_b.jpg
Posted by: Flynbryan19
hmm........wonder where kyboy is now.......?
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by Flynbryan19
hmm........wonder where kyboy is now.......?
he will still defend his thoughts IF he really believes john was sent in to take out ballance or he will back track and finally we will see he is talking out his *** or he could be right!
there is more to the story then whats been told, and in time it will come out. it doesnt have anything to do with cheating or a blocker, but you all believe what you will
Posted by: lancems007
I really hope the AMA gives the protest some thought and sees that the fault was not on any of the racers. It certainly isn't Ballances fault and anyone that listens to the real story from Borich (not second hand BS) should see how this penalty was uncalled for.
It would be the greatest season ending race EVER to see the championship come down to the 2 best woods racers in the country battling it out to the end! If it happens any other way, I'm afraid the 07 GNCC Championship will be forever tainted.
Posted by: Prey
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
What does that mean?
listen uncle ballance....
if you wanna continue trying to drag racers through the mud and shoot off you big mouth...
do it at bannedatatvnews.com, i am not trashin harlens site anymore than i already have
Posted by: jb500ex
so everyone knows kywoodsrider is bills uncle.
Posted by: jb500ex
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
His frame mods where 100% within the rules. FACT
Borich cut off more than 300 yards off track. FACT
I guess you guys can't handle the truth?
yes lets talk truth about your nephew bill ballance. lets talk about loretta lynns and him riding across the road because he needed to beat smiley so bad he would do anything in front of anyone then argue after the race that he was right. your nephew has been known as a cheater his whole career. and has had more wins takin away for cheating. smiley should have dropped his *** right there. you can say what you want but the majority of the public is starting to see the real bill with his post race interviews and his actions. and you are probably where he got his great personality from
Posted by: xcyfz450
quote:
Originally posted by kywoodsrider
One more reason why John blocking Bill is such a big deal.
The dust is the reason Chris had no shot of even tring to pass Bill so he did what he did.
i got a 20th place start in 24+C class and passed my way up to 3rd for the day and had to deal with all the slow utility sportsman and anyother rider that was just out holding up the trail 4 me
Posted by: popo
quote:
Originally posted by jb500ex
yes lets talk truth about your nephew bill ballance. lets talk about loretta lynns and him riding acroos the road because he needed to beat smiley so bad he would do anything in front of anyone then argue after the race that he was right. your nephew has been known as a cheater his whole career. and has had more wins takin away for cheating. smiley should have dropped his *** right there. you can say what you want but the majority of the publis is starting to see the real bill with his post race interviews and his actions
Spell check you stupid Bipolar idiot.
Click Here for your problem
Posted by: jb500ex
quote:
Originally posted by popo
Spell check you stupid Bipolar idiot.
Click Here for your problem
spell this guy...
Posted by: rpmquad
hey poo poo....come back to baan lmao
Posted by: Bill Fuller
I love Bill Ballance and Yamaha Glad the table has finally been turned against Borich. Consider them both cheaters if you will but just let this chit die. I am so tired of all the bashing from people I respected.
Posted by: jb500ex
quote:
Originally posted by gbcap
who are you? come out from behind your Fawking screen name and be a man!
its bills uncle who runs ballance motoX
Posted by: jb500ex
quote:
Originally posted by rpmquad
hey poo poo....come back to baan lmao
he said he hates midgets
Posted by: 250rmike
all i got to say is wow. i wasnt there to see what happens but i have raced in xc before and many things can happen. whatever happens it has been a good year for racing. and thanks for coming on and clearing your name i was gonna post this over at ******** so you could see but i guess im just alittle to slow.
sorry about that thanks for editing
Posted by: smr
quote:
Originally posted by jb500ex
so everyone knows kywoodsrider is bills uncle.
I think somebody has made a mistake. I know John Balance and I don't think he is kywoodsrider. John is a class act and I can't see him saying these things and John also wouldn't be afraid to tell everyone who he is.
looks like kywoodsrider is not the only one guilty of posting 2nd hand information.
Posted by: gbcap
quote:
Originally posted by jb500ex
its bills uncle who runs ballance motoX
i WAS cheering for bill to win his 8th title. I would have loved to see him to it. but now...i hope he blows his motor and doesn't finish.
i can't believe some of the stuff he said on the podium. he is NOT a champion in most fans eyes now. champions don't bash people when they have a mic infront of thier face. and they definatly don't have thier uncles come on the biggest atv forum and make the family look like a fool.
everyone should boycot the balanace motoX track forever. don't reward them for being asshats.
Posted by: jlhughes750
I was discussing this situation with a fellow racer (non internet guy). He brought up a good point!!!
What is a good champion?? I want someone personable and approachable!! Borich runs the WPSA, D6 and PA State, AGP and the 12 Hours races. This same guy had another "I tried to say good race to Bill Ballance" story and got blown off!
Just a discussion point.
Posted by: JAKE YATES
DID ANY HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT BORICH CUSSING OUT RACER PRODUCTION SUNDAY DURING THE BIKE RACE? JUST SOMETHING I HEARD..........
Posted by: Jamie@Cardiostack
quote:
Originally posted by IronManNatalie
oh my goodness! I was pretty ....ed off when I first read this, but as I continued on I realized that kywoodsrider is just clueless and just trying to defend his first statement.
I was there. I raced it. I did cut the track. I did it accidentally. Throughout the course of the race there was sections of the track that were changed. After the first lap the whole section after the start was different. After the second lap at ( I think the 7 mile marker) Notice I said think!! they completely took out a right hand turn and added a left to take you a totally different direction. Yeah I got a little confused. Im still not even sure where I cut or how I even got back on the track. I never got in front of Bill and tried to slow him down. Don’t be stupid. I also never tried to ram him. Bill and Chris are both amazingly fast in the woods. They are professionals. I don’t think either one would cheat. Taking a wrong turn is possible. With all the changing of the track it was easy to get confused. Not to mention the worst dust I’ve ever seen! Not to mention the people would stand right in the middle of the track and point you where to go. People need to stay out of the track and let the racers race. It’s their job to find the lines. I think Chris got a bum deal. Its sucks he got caught up in this. As far as the Ironman goes, I will be there, racing to win. I don’t go to block or anything but to race. I always race to win. I always get my butt kicked at gncc’s, but I have fun. Please don’t talk crap unless you know what you are talking about.
Well said John! If Ballance had half your class and personality he would probabley be considered a great Peoples Champ such as yourself.. Instead most REAL RACERS cant stand him! Borich got screwed this weekend in my opinion and hopefully Billy Boy is losing alot of sleep over this one.. You can go to church and prey all you want but someday you sins will come back to get you!!!!!!!! Ironman should be very exciting, and I think that Karma might be coming to enjoy the show!!!!!!!!
Posted by: JBENSON
quote:
Originally posted by Jamie@Cardiostack
Well said John! If Ballance had half your class and personality he would probabley be considered a great Peoples Champ such as yourself.. Instead most REAL RACERS cant stand him! Borich got screwed this weekend in my opinion and hopefully Billy Boy is losing alot of sleep over this one.. You can go to church and prey all you want but someday you sins will come back to get you!!!!!!!! Ironman should be very exciting, and I think that Karma might be coming to enjoy the show!!!!!!!!
AMEN! I agree! John is a true profesional! I think a lot of fans & racers are starting to see a different side of Ballance. Just my opinion. 
Ballance & Borich are both great racers! Let them battle it out at the ironman!
Posted by: joedirt
quote:
Originally posted by JAKE YATES
DID ANY HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT BORICH CUSSING OUT RACER PRODUCTION SUNDAY DURING THE BIKE RACE? JUST SOMETHING I HEARD..........
YOU HEARD WRONG...Borich was at home racing a local on Sunday morning.
Posted by: JAKE YATES
WHAT LOCAL RACE??
Posted by: joedirt
Hare Scramble at Evansville MX in Pa.
Posted by: STEVENJANNA
This is really none of my concern. Just click on results.
http://www.evansvilleraceway.com/Races.aspx
Posted by: JAKE YATES
WELL AT LEAST HE GO A WIN SOMEWHERE LAST WEEKEND!!!!!
Posted by: coryatver
this whole deal sucks. I wish they could just race it out at ironman for the championship the way it should be.
Posted by: STEVENJANNA
This is so reminiscent of another ATVA/RPG controversy from last season over on the mx side of things.
Posted by: joedirt
quote:
Originally posted by JAKE YATES
WELL AT LEAST HE GO A WIN SOMEWHERE LAST WEEKEND!!!!!
Chris still has more wins then your buddy Billy.
Posted by: Flynbryan19
Interesting how all the trolls have either disappeared or are back pedaling now...... No fun when your trying to start gossip with people that actually KNOW the riders or were actually THERE huh? lol 
Posted by: JAKE YATES
THAT #1 PLATE IS ALL THAT MATTERS AND WE WILL SEE WHO HOLDS IT UP COME IRONMAN!!!!
Posted by: Prey
quote:
Originally posted by JAKE YATES
THAT #1 PLATE IS ALL THAT MATTERS AND WE WILL SEE WHO HOLDS IT UP COME IRONMAN!!!!
i have definately learned a valuable leason from this post.... next year i am going to whine, cry and bribe my way to a championship, cause its all that matters and morals are a thing of the past...
you freakin idiot
Posted by: smr
quote:
Originally posted by gbcap
i WAS cheering for bill to win his 8th title. I would have loved to see him to it. but now...i hope he blows his motor and doesn't finish.
i can't believe some of the stuff he said on the podium. he is NOT a champion in most fans eyes now. champions don't bash people when they have a mic infront of thier face. and they definatly don't have thier uncles come on the biggest atv forum and make the family look like a fool.
everyone should boycot the balanace motoX track forever. don't reward them for being asshats.
kywoodsracer isn't John Ballance.
Posted by: JAKE YATES
quote:
Originally posted by Prey
i have definately learned a valuable leason from this post.... next year i am going to whine, cry and bribe my way to a championship, cause its all that matters and morals are a thing of the past...
you freakin idiot
SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU ARE ALREADY CRYING!!!!(GOOD START FOR NEXT YEAR,CHAMP!!)
Posted by: joedirt
quote:
Originally posted by JAKE YATES
THAT #1 PLATE IS ALL THAT MATTERS AND WE WILL SEE WHO HOLDS IT UP COME IRONMAN!!!!
Not because he earned it.
Posted by: JAKE YATES
quote:
Originally posted by joedirt
Not because he earned it.
WHAT EVER!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Scro
quote:
Originally posted by joedirt
Not because he earned it.
Are you kidding me? Do you realize how much talent it takes to run up front at the national pro level? The man never finished below third and you say he didn't earn it?? Nobody from here, except for a select few, really knows what happened along the season. Whether he cheated or not, that is your own judgement. But to say he didn't earn it is insane.
Posted by: joedirt
quote:
Originally posted by Scro
Are you kidding me? Do you realize how much talent it takes to run up front at the national pro level? The man never finished below third and you say he didn't earn it?? Nobody from here, except for a select few, really knows what happened along the season. Whether he cheated or not, that is your own judgement. But to say he didn't earn it is insane.
Relax...I just wanted to see what JAKE would come back with.
Posted by: JAKE YATES
quote:
Originally posted by joedirt
Relax...I just wanted to see what JAKE would come back with.
AFTER THAT LAST COMMENT IM DONE WITH THIS POST
Posted by: jb500ex
quote:
Originally posted by smr
kywoodsracer isn't John Ballance.
his ip and email come back as ballance mx. so it is someone related or very close. and i still say its his uncle. so what do you have to say about that
Posted by: tim colston
Holly crap am I worn out from reading that thread.
Posted by: lancems007
Bougher, I didn't realize you were a hacker!!!! That's pretty funny!
I say let 'em "Iron it out" at the Ironman!!!!
The comment about Borich cussing someone out at the bike GNCC is way off. I talked to him at his place the day he was supposedly cussing people out. It just goes to show that the rumors ( as opposed to fact) some of these guys spread are out of hand.
Posted by: smr
quote:
Originally posted by jb500ex
his ip and email come back as ballance mx. so it is someone related or very close. and i still say its his uncle. so what do you have to say about that
I've allready said it.
Posted by: jlhughes750
quote:
Originally posted by jlhughes750
Is an 8 time champ good for our sport??? Is it good for the series?
Could a series or promoter really influence the outcome of an 11 mile 2 hour race?
I'd enjoy reading a forum that would discuss these topics without useless banter from people who have no experience.. Discussions from those of us who have been around XC racing for years and are familiar with Pro level racing. Seems impossible to pull off. I'd reccomend having to apply and be accepted into the thread/forum. A resume with race background, history etc.
Any takers??? less bickering more discussion!!!
Posted by: jb500ex
quote:
Originally posted by smr
I've allready said it.
and i already know it ballancemx
Posted by: Prey
quote:
Originally posted by jlhughes750
Any takers??? less bickering more discussion!!!
why would there be takers dummy, your criteria is so strict that only a handful of people could respond and 1/2 of which probably dont use the forums
not to mention the question was no where near worth sending a resume for
Posted by: ex kid
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scro
Are you kidding me? Do you realize how much talent it takes to run up front at the national pro level? The man never finished below third and you say he didn't earn it?? Nobody from here, except for a select few, really knows what happened along the season. Whether he cheated or not, that is your own judgement. But to say he didn't earn it is insane. [/QUOTE
joedirt knows what it takes to run up front in the Pro class at a GNCC.
Posted by: jb500ex
quote:
Originally posted by ex kid
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scro
Are you kidding me? Do you realize how much talent it takes to run up front at the national pro level? The man never finished below third and you say he didn't earn it?? Nobody from here, except for a select few, really knows what happened along the season. Whether he cheated or not, that is your own judgement. But to say he didn't earn it is insane. [/QUOTE
joedirt knows what it takes to run up front in the Pro class at a GNCC.
yes he does
Posted by: TheJaspMan
quote:
Originally posted by ex kid
quote:
Originally posted by Scro
Are you kidding me? Do you realize how much talent it takes to run up front at the national pro level? The man never finished below third and you say he didn't earn it?? Nobody from here, except for a select few, really knows what happened along the season. Whether he cheated or not, that is your own judgement. But to say he didn't earn it is insane.
joedirt knows what it takes to run up front in the Pro class at a GNCC.
No doubt.
Posted by: joedirt
I'm not sure if this is going in the right direction.
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by joedirt
I'm not sure if this is going in the right direction.
I wonder if someone will have video of exactly where this thread went off course ? LMAO
Posted by: TheJaspMan
quote:
Originally posted by joedirt
I'm not sure if this is going in the right direction.
I agree 100%.
IMHO: There is way too much speculation, slander, conspiracy theories and bashing for my taste. So far there has been very little I have read worthwhile or good for the sport in regards to this whole ordeal.
Posted by: TheJaspMan
quote:
Originally posted by Pappy
I wonder if someone will have video of exactly where this thread went off course ? LMAO
Good one!!!
Posted by: brndnbllnc
WoW!! The more I read, the more I realize I had to have a certain # of threads to know what I am talking about if I decide to post a thread myself!! LOL} Now, anyone who knows me would say that i'm a reasonable, fair, and honest person. One thing I do a lot is put myself in the "other person's" shoes and try to see things the way he/she does to have a better understanding of why they think or do the things they do. This lets me see where they are coming from and be able to see their side of the story. Why? Hell, I don't know! My only answer is that we are all made different for different reasons. In this case, putting myself in Borich's shoes...he came to this race w/ the fact planted in his head that he must win the last two races to have a chance at the championship. Yes, he is as fast or even faster than anyone out there, but he knew he had to take the chance of winning by cutting the course to get ahead of Bill. His chances in the dust of getting close enough to Bill to make a "legitimate" pass w/ 4 miles left were slim to none. So, he took the chance and got caught on film. As far as my comment to Natalie...I was saying that in a "jokingly" way and we actually laughed about it and talked for a while. Did he stir up dust in front of Bill deliberately?? Don't know! But riding in clear view is much easier than riding in someones dust and would've slowed Bill down considerably! I know Bill better than anyone and would never call him a cheater! He made a mistake once before @ Loretta's when he didn't walk his quad across the road. He felt stupid afterwards about his decision. Why are most of you on here sooo "one sided"?? Bill is a quiet person and has more on his mind to do w/ racing than what most of us put together could comprehend! Sometimes he is focused, stressed, or just busy. It's not that he doesn't have time for anyone. Trust me...I DON'T AGREE OR GET ALONG W/ HIM ALL THE TIME!!! But a cheater...he loves the sport too much to do such a thing. Sorry there are so many of you who have to drown yourselves in other peoples "neglective" comments. I had a blast racing again in OH! Will be back in IN!
Posted by: TheJaspMan
quote:
Originally posted by brndnbllnc
WoW!! The more I read, the more I realize I had to have a certain # of threads to know what I am talking about if I decide to post a thread myself!! LOL} Now, anyone who knows me would say that i'm a reasonable, fair, and honest person. One thing I do a lot is put myself in the "other person's" shoes and try to see things the way he/she does to have a better understanding of why they think or do the things they do. This lets me see where they are coming from and be able to see their side of the story. Why? Hell, I don't know! My only answer is that we are all made different for different reasons. In this case, putting myself in Borich's shoes...he came to this race w/ the fact planted in his head that he must win the last two races to have a chance at the championship. Yes, he is as fast or even faster than anyone out there, but he knew he had to take the chance of winning by cutting the course to get ahead of Bill. His chances in the dust of getting close enough to Bill to make a "legitimate" pass w/ 4 miles left were slim to none. So, he took the chance and got caught on film. As far as my comment to Natalie...I was saying that in a "jokingly" way and we actually laughed about it and talked for a while. Did he stir up dust in front of Bill deliberately?? Don't know! But riding in clear view is much easier than riding in someones dust and would've slowed Bill down considerably! I know Bill better than anyone and would never call him a cheater! He made a mistake once before @ Loretta's when he didn't walk his quad across the road. He felt stupid afterwards about his decision. Why are most of you on here sooo "one sided"?? Bill is a quiet person and has more on his mind to do w/ racing than what most of us put together could comprehend! Sometimes he is focused, stressed, or just busy. It's not that he doesn't have time for anyone. Trust me...I DON'T AGREE OR GET ALONG W/ HIM ALL THE TIME!!! But a cheater...he loves the sport too much to do such a thing. Sorry there are so many of you who have to drown yourselves in other peoples "neglective" comments. I had a blast racing again in OH! Will be back in IN!
5 forums posts is not enough experience to offer reliable opinions on anything BJ. Please make a little more effort to get your post count up before jumping into a MANS conversation.
haha jk. Don't shove me down at IN.
Posted by: brndnbllnc
Yes...I mistakingly put "threads" instead of "forums posts". Man, I am an amateur at this!!LOL C-ya soon. And u can bet i'm staying Sat. nite!!
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by TheJaspMan
IMHO: There is way too much speculation, slander, conspiracy theories and bashing for my taste. So far there has been very little I have read worthwhile or good for the sport in regards to this whole ordeal.
It so bad that you've almost caught BJ in posts in a span of 5 minutes on this issue..LMAO
I say let the video play, and then people can make up their own mind as to what went down. As far as it being bad for the sport, well, people tend to be someone they are not online and seeing the majority of crap is being posted by those that are in the sport I figure they have a right, albiet it does make a few of them look poorly, but what looks worse? A thread on the net or the possibilty of one of our top riders cheating? I still stand by my first post that I cant see it being 110% cheating as the risk involved would be immense. If it was, then Chris may get busted for it. If the tape shows it was an all out cluster, then it will fall to the fans to decide what they would have done in the same situation.
Posted by: Scro
quote:
Originally posted by ex kid
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scro
Are you kidding me? Do you realize how much talent it takes to run up front at the national pro level? The man never finished below third and you say he didn't earn it?? Nobody from here, except for a select few, really knows what happened along the season. Whether he cheated or not, that is your own judgement. But to say he didn't earn it is insane. [/QUOTE
joedirt knows what it takes to run up front in the Pro class at a GNCC.
Damn screennames My apologies
Posted by: TheJaspMan
quote:
Originally posted by brndnbllnc
Yes...I mistakingly put "threads" instead of "forums posts". Man, I am an amateur at this!!LOL C-ya soon. And u can bet i'm staying Sat. nite!!
You better be. I think Willett is gonna roll up and I need help stuffing him with the tab! 
Posted by: TheJaspMan
quote:
Originally posted by Pappy
It so bad that you've almost caught BJ in posts in a span of 5 minutes on this issue..LMAO
I say let the video play, and then people can make up their own mind as to what went down. As far as it being bad for the sport, well, people tend to be someone they are not online and seeing the majority of crap is being posted by those that are in the sport I figure they have a right, albiet it does make a few of them look poorly, but what looks worse? A thread on the net or the possibilty of one of our top riders cheating? I still stand by my first post that I cant see it being 110% cheating as the risk involved would be immense. If it was, then Chris may get busted for it. If the tape shows it was an all out cluster, then it will fall to the fans to decide what they would have done in the same situation.
Posted by: Pappy
btw...anyone recall what the penalty to ballance and borich was at the Virginia GNCC a few years ago when they were directed by fans around a bottleneck and it was also caught on tape?
and what about the two spectators that directed chris, are these the same ones that directed bithell at yadkinville?
i think some changes will come down after this season is over....
Posted by: Scro
quote:
Originally posted by Pappy
i think some changes will come down after this season is over....
No more spectators in the woods???? That would suck.
Posted by: TheJaspMan
quote:
Originally posted by Pappy
btw...anyone recall what the penalty to ballance and borich was at the Virginia GNCC a few years ago when they were directed by fans around a bottleneck and it was also caught on tape?
and what about the two spectators that directed chris, are these the same ones that directed bithell at yadkinville?
i think some changes will come down after this season is over....
Wasn't it the same punishment? In fact I think Morphew and Atwell have both suffered the same punishment.
The whole issue (simplified) is like hitting a golf ball out of bounds.... it happens but you are still penalized regardless of malicous or accidental fault.
Posted by: Pappy
pappy don't know golf.....
but I do know that depending on the situation, chris could have made the same decision anyone of us would have made. this is where seeing the tape will help because we can get an idea of what actually occured. that doesnt make it legal or even right but it happens and would really suck for him as if it doesnt already.
and ballance did what anyone of us would have done if we rolled into the finish line (not being passed) and there sat the victor ballance gets a bum rap many times simply because he has a target on his back the size of texas. no matter who you cheer for, respect goes alot further then bashing in my eyes even if it means swallowing some pride.
yall let me know if common sense is to much for this thread
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by Scro
No more spectators in the woods???? That would suck.
i was thinking better course markings
more course officials in the woods
maybe even some form of gps transponder that would be able to plot the actual course taken each lap by each pro rider.
Posted by: jb500ex
quote:
Originally posted by brndnbllnc
WoW!! The more I read, the more I realize I had to have a certain # of threads to know what I am talking about if I decide to post a thread myself!! LOL} Now, anyone who knows me would say that i'm a reasonable, fair, and honest person. One thing I do a lot is put myself in the "other person's" shoes and try to see things the way he/she does to have a better understanding of why they think or do the things they do. This lets me see where they are coming from and be able to see their side of the story. Why? Hell, I don't know! My only answer is that we are all made different for different reasons. In this case, putting myself in Borich's shoes...he came to this race w/ the fact planted in his head that he must win the last two races to have a chance at the championship. Yes, he is as fast or even faster than anyone out there, but he knew he had to take the chance of winning by cutting the course to get ahead of Bill. His chances in the dust of getting close enough to Bill to make a "legitimate" pass w/ 4 miles left were slim to none. So, he took the chance and got caught on film. As far as my comment to Natalie...I was saying that in a "jokingly" way and we actually laughed about it and talked for a while. Did he stir up dust in front of Bill deliberately?? Don't know! But riding in clear view is much easier than riding in someones dust and would've slowed Bill down considerably! I know Bill better than anyone and would never call him a cheater! He made a mistake once before @ Loretta's when he didn't walk his quad across the road. He felt stupid afterwards about his decision. Why are most of you on here sooo "one sided"?? Bill is a quiet person and has more on his mind to do w/ racing than what most of us put together could comprehend! Sometimes he is focused, stressed, or just busy. It's not that he doesn't have time for anyone. Trust me...I DON'T AGREE OR GET ALONG W/ HIM ALL THE TIME!!! But a cheater...he loves the sport too much to do such a thing. Sorry there are so many of you who have to drown yourselves in other peoples "neglective" comments. I had a blast racing again in OH! Will be back in IN!
basically your calling chris a cheater by saying he had to take a chance and got caught. and at the same time saying bill would never cheat
Posted by: cletusEX
Like Pappy said, I can't see Borich intentionally cheating. I'm pretty sure I know exactly what line he took (yes I was out there racing). I also was directed by a spectator to take the line, but was battling with the guy in front of me and did not know if the line was faster. The line was definitely worn in by the 3rd lap so more than a few people must have been going that way (guys behind me actually took the line). As for not being able to pass Ballance in the dust. It wouldn't have been too hard when Ballance got hung up in that last mudhole. I slowed up to pick the best line and he bonzaied in and got hung up.
Posted by: smr
quote:
Originally posted by brndnbllnc
WoW!! The more I read, the more I realize I had to have a certain # of threads to know what I am talking about if I decide to post a thread myself!! LOL} Now, anyone who knows me would say that i'm a reasonable, fair, and honest person. One thing I do a lot is put myself in the "other person's" shoes and try to see things the way he/she does to have a better understanding of why they think or do the things they do. This lets me see where they are coming from and be able to see their side of the story. Why? Hell, I don't know! My only answer is that we are all made different for different reasons. In this case, putting myself in Borich's shoes...he came to this race w/ the fact planted in his head that he must win the last two races to have a chance at the championship. Yes, he is as fast or even faster than anyone out there, but he knew he had to take the chance of winning by cutting the course to get ahead of Bill. His chances in the dust of getting close enough to Bill to make a "legitimate" pass w/ 4 miles left were slim to none. So, he took the chance and got caught on film. As far as my comment to Natalie...I was saying that in a "jokingly" way and we actually laughed about it and talked for a while. Did he stir up dust in front of Bill deliberately?? Don't know! But riding in clear view is much easier than riding in someones dust and would've slowed Bill down considerably! I know Bill better than anyone and would never call him a cheater! He made a mistake once before @ Loretta's when he didn't walk his quad across the road. He felt stupid afterwards about his decision. Why are most of you on here sooo "one sided"?? Bill is a quiet person and has more on his mind to do w/ racing than what most of us put together could comprehend! Sometimes he is focused, stressed, or just busy. It's not that he doesn't have time for anyone. Trust me...I DON'T AGREE OR GET ALONG W/ HIM ALL THE TIME!!! But a cheater...he loves the sport too much to do such a thing. Sorry there are so many of you who have to drown yourselves in other peoples "neglective" comments. I had a blast racing again in OH! Will be back in IN!
thanks for the insight BJ. Good luck in In.
I think most of the negetive comments are just people upset that Borich has put himself in an almost imposible position to win the championship.
Posted by: Prey
it doesnt matter IMO, argue it out... have fun with it...
no matter what the truth is
reality is.... when its all said and done... this championship is tainted... if ballance wins his 8th... people are gonna say exactly what i have... he cried and paid his way to it.. and he is already getting boo'ed
if williams machine doesnt hold together or he has a bad get-off and borich ends up with the championship.... people will say he cheated his way there
it's too bad the last couple races went down they way they did, at mid-season, it looked like this was gonna be one he11 of a championship battle and then it turned into this :R .... i think i am having deja vu, natalie-byrd of last year
Posted by: JBENSON
Im sure most of us racers have made mistakes, I have. Nobodys perfect, i think what everybody wants to see here is the video. If Chris cheated that was his loss, if he did'nt give him the win back, its that simple. If Bill wins the championship, congratulations on #8! I hope they review the tape & make the right decison, i'm sure they will. Let the best man win! Who will it be?????? I guess we will know next weekend. Im not here to bash people, im here to view everyones opinion. 
Good luck to everybody who will be at the Ironman!
Posted by: jb500ex
quote:
Originally posted by smr
thanks for the insight BJ. Good luck in In.
I think most of the negetive comments are just people upset that Borich has put himself in an almost imposible position to win the championship.
or maybe its this
Posted by: JBENSON
quote:
Originally posted by jb500ex
or maybe its this
Thats a good one! I was thinking that. LOL!
Posted by: jlhughes750
quote:
Originally posted by smr
thanks for the insight BJ. Good luck in In.
I think most of the negetive comments are just people upset that Borich has put himself in an almost imposible position to win the championship.
Some people are just disgusted with decisions being made to cater to a select few!!! Its been happening for years at the GNCC's
Borich has still got a chance. Its would be real depressing for Bill if he pops a motor at the ironman!!!
I have alot of respect for Bill's determination and drive to win, always have!! I like the interview a few months back in Quad mag, where he explained how he hates to lose!!!
I still gotta say, I hope Bill breaks and Chris takes the title!!! I love a good ole fashioned dog fight!!!
Posted by: smr
it was the same way when Barry Hawk was winning. Everybody said he had the best equipment and most people wanted to see somebody else win.
When your on top people are gonna hate on you....not that I've ever experienced this...
Posted by: RaptorRacer45
quote:
Originally posted by smr
When your on top people are gonna hate on you....not that I've ever experienced this...
Its the same in any other type of racing as well.....route for your rider but dont hate another.......Real Race Fans dont Boo!
Posted by: jb500ex
quote:
Originally posted by smr
it was the same way when Barry Hawk was winning. Everybody said he had the best equipment and most people wanted to see somebody else win.
When your on top people are gonna hate on you....not that I've ever experienced this...
everyone loved barry and still does. he still has tons of respect from the pros on the front line unlike other people. the only ones that wanted him to lose live in ky. and what ballance wants to own upto kywoodsriders comments. everyone else knows you the other people are atleast let people know which one. rc is loved, mcgrath is loved, barry hawk is loved, juha was loved, bill ballance was boo'ed. dont lump your guy with the other guy because its not even close to the same
Posted by: Flynbryan19
It really makes it disappointing. I like both riders. I think its cool to see a multi time champ add another to the wall. I also think its cool to see some one come along and dethrone the past dominating force. I just wish it could be done without all the drama.
I've heard things about Bill that bum me out about his character. I've also heard things that bum me out about Chris. We're all human including them. And I'm sure they have tempers and say/do things they regret just like we do. It would just be nice to be there in person and physically see what went down. Till then all you can do is rely on hear-say.
And as much as I respect Brandon and John's opinions/statements they WILL be biased. Be sure of that. I certainly sensed that in Brandon's post.
Posted by: national425ex
quote:
Originally posted by gbcap
i WAS cheering for bill to win his 8th title. I would have loved to see him to it. but now...i hope he blows his motor and doesn't finish.
i can't believe some of the stuff he said on the podium. he is NOT a champion in most fans eyes now. champions don't bash people when they have a mic infront of thier face. and they definatly don't have thier uncles come on the biggest atv forum and make the family look like a fool.
everyone should boycot the balanace motoX track forever. don't reward them for being asshats.
so what did bill say on the podium? Im just curious..........
Posted by: Flynbryan19
quote:
Originally posted by national425ex
so what did bill say on the podium? Im just curious..........
I'd be curious to know too?
Posted by: popo
quote:
Originally posted by national425ex
so what did bill say on the podium? Im just curious..........
Ballance’s win puts him in prime position to win the GNCC title at the series finale Klotz Ironman GNCC in Indiana in two weeks. Although he didn’t see Borich on the last lap, he was pretty sure what had happened. “About as quick as I asked those questions, I figured them out pretty quick in my head what was going on,” Ballance said on the podium. “The Yamaha worked great, and we got a win here today and we’re that much closer to getting an eighth championship, so that feels pretty darn good.”
Posted by: Prey
quote:
Originally posted by jb500ex
or maybe its this
you need to make the logo say GBCC
Posted by: national425ex
quote:
Originally posted by popo
Ballance’s win puts him in prime position to win the GNCC title at the series finale Klotz Ironman GNCC in Indiana in two weeks. Although he didn’t see Borich on the last lap, he was pretty sure what had happened. “About as quick as I asked those questions, I figured them out pretty quick in my head what was going on,” Ballance said on the podium. “The Yamaha worked great, and we got a win here today and we’re that much closer to getting an eighth championship, so that feels pretty darn good.”
so that is all he said? By the way that other guy talked, I would of thought bill called chris a cheater and was up on the podium running down everyone. I dont see what is wrong with saying he is one step closer to a championship.
Posted by: Crackhead_Willy
Bill also made a comment on how he was going to win the championship "HONESTLY". I was bit taken back by this comment because it was obviously directed at Borich, but then again I did understand Bill's frustration. You are in the lead all race and then your primary competition shows up at the finish line before you without you having any idea how they got ahead of you. He probably should have left this comment out and I think people would have had more respect for him for being the bigger person.
Posted by: Johnny & Monica
I`m so pumped to see the out come next week Borich fans here but I believe Borich wasnt in the wrong just a quick desion on follow the line the spectators were pointing out or take a chance on the bottleneck , An Natalie is too professional to play BS games . Borich aint counted out yet . Not looking good but he still has a chance Gooo Chris!
An Pappy We`re drinking beer an talking smack at the motel lounge Fri. night Be there Ol`Boy We had A great time last year With Chuck buying shots
Posted by: TheJaspMan
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny & Monica
I`m so pumped to see the out come next week Borich fans here but I believe Borich wasnt in the wrong just a quick desion on follow the line the spectators were pointing out or take a chance on the bottleneck , An Natalie is too professional to play BS games . Borich aint counted out yet . Not looking good but he still has a chance Gooo Chris!
An Pappy We`re drinking beer an talking smack at the motel lounge Fri. night Be there Ol`Boy We had A great time last year With Chuck buying shots
You just think those were shots...
Posted by: JBENSON
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny & Monica
I`m so pumped to see the out come next week Borich fans here but I believe Borich wasnt in the wrong just a quick desion on follow the line the spectators were pointing out or take a chance on the bottleneck , An Natalie is too professional to play BS games . Borich aint counted out yet . Not looking good but he still has a chance Gooo Chris!
An Pappy We`re drinking beer an talking smack at the motel lounge Fri. night Be there Ol`Boy We had A great time last year With Chuck buying shots
HELL YEAH!!! GO BORICH!!!
Im sure there will be alot of smack talk going on Friday, I'll be drinking & hanging out too!
Posted by: amorefield
I just wonder what everybody will be saying after next year when Bill gets 9 in a row.
Posted by: TheJaspMan
quote:
Originally posted by amorefield
I just wonder what everybody will be saying after next year when Bill gets 9 in a row.
Keep checking this thread next season, the argument in this one will still be going.
Posted by: jb500ex
we will be there thursday night partying. i have a feeling it's going to be a good weekend
Posted by: yfzvs450r
Go to the GNCC site and click on quick fill and it has the tape on there of Borich cutting the course
Posted by: amorefield
What some of the opinions be if Chris was in first and Bill had missed some of the course or whatever happened? Would it be Bill got a bum deal,or he just was making excuses.
Posted by: cdalejef
It happened in 04 at the VA race, Bill was docked 2 positions.
Posted by: popo
Here is the video
http://www.gnccracing.com/images/qu...2018/borich.mov
Posted by: brndnbllnc
I agree. This thread is gonna keep going on and on. From what I have read there are clearly people on here who are biased against Bill or Chris. Why? My only "guess" would be that there is a champion (BILL) who has been winning for 7+ yrs. straight and then you have (CHRIS) who is basically the most favored one to dethrone Bill for a championship. One is on a Honda and the other on a Yamaha, which doesn't seem to have as much affect on people as I had thought in the beginning. Here we have a guy(Borich) who is more "outgoing" and will get out w/ friends and have a good time, and then we have a guy(Bill) who is more a family, laid back, southern type of person who keeps to himself and doesn't get out as much or is not as sociable. I'm not biased to any rider. But, Bill is who he is and he is a multi-champion for accepting that! Hate him if you want, but at the same time, eventhough I am one of the guys ALL of you hang out with and are friends with, there is no reason to be "BIASED" towards one rider. That is unless they are not abiding by the rules! Say Chris didn't mean to "cheat" as most are saying...he still cut off 200-300 yards of the course, it wasn't dusty in the creek section where it happened, there WAS NOT a bottleneck, and he WAS caught on film doing so! Catch Bill or anyone else doing so and i'll say that they need to be disqualified for that race! Why? A pro rider of all knows the course and his/ her limitations. Since they did not "disqualfy" Borich for this race for the decision he made, he still has a chance at winning the championship. To cheat or at least "accidently" cheat even one race when ALL of them count and still be able to win the championship just isn't right!! Am I biased?? NO! So, lets all get together and ask to see the video for ourselves so we can at least see the facts of what happened whether it was intentionally or not. Chuck said it best when referring to golf. And the more the spectators the better, but some are causing some problems! And some spectators will eventually get seriously hurt if blocking a faster line that is a part of the course when the rider knows it is a faster line. None of us should be accountable for their injuries for they are putting themselves in danger! To many of us, racing is our occupation. We support ourselves, our family, or even to help the industries and technologies advance for the upcoming riders. Spectators of such or riders of such will eventually make the factories who are providing support start scratching their heads and wonder if they made the right decision on getting so involved! And Chuck, I agree...let's put the tab on someone else! LOL
Posted by: gbcap
yup....he shoudln't have taken that line...
Posted by: smr
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff@TireBalls
It happened in 04 at the VA race, Bill was docked 2 positions.
I remember that Jeff. Even when they docked the time Bill took off by leaving the course he still had the win. Then they docked him two positions.
Bill and Chris are at the top of their game, no dought. I wish it could be decided on the last lap at the Ironman and everybody could be happy. Unfortenatly that's not the cards that have been dealt and now we have people haten because they don't want to see the Champ win again. Some people are looking for a new top gun and I respect that, but don't start haten just because the same guy is winning again.
Kindof reminds me of when Jeff Gordon was so dominate in Nascar.
Posted by: gbcap
he even second guessed himself. why did the spectators only direct HIM up thru there....that is BS. those guys should be found and banned from the events too. it cost him a championship because of it. or atleast the chance towards one.
i never once said Chris didn't cheat. but i didn't think he would have on purpose. there it looks like he knew it was wrong (second guessed it) but still did it anyway. but he did cut the course. i don't think it was 300 yards. but it was a good deal.
the win should go to Bill on this one.
Bill still shouldn't have said the things he did say on the podium. don't hit a guy while he is down. don't bash another pro rider about coming out there to block you purposly. john would never do that. he admitted he cut the course and thats that.
'tainted' is the word for this year. sucks but true.
thanks RP for putting the video up. normally things like that are hidden from us. that clears alot of things up.
i still think the filmer should have bannered up that line. he was standing there. saw those guys there, saw the line there and still did nothing. it is as much his fault as the fans fault.
Posted by: TheJaspMan
quote:
Originally posted by gbcap
i still think the filmer should have bannered up that line. he was standing there. saw those guys there, saw the line there and still did nothing. it is as much his fault as the fans fault.
I disagree with that. That would be like me or any other photographer being responsible. They have a job to do and it's not course marking. The course was quite clear to Bill AND the other two or three amateur riders that went by, let's not blame the camera guys.
Posted by: 250rmike
after seeing the video i can see why they docketed him the position im with rp on this one. after he got up on the trail and saw how much it cut off no matter if he could catch bill or not he should have taken or made a trail back down and continued on the course. now i know there is a championship on the line but that was clearly cutting the couse just my opinion
Posted by: joedirt
quote:
Originally posted by popo
Here is the video
http://www.gnccracing.com/images/qu...2018/borich.mov
Posted by: gbcap
quote:
Originally posted by TheJaspMan
I disagree with that. That would be like me or any other photographer being responsible. They have a job to do and it's not course marking. The course was quite clear to Bill AND the other two or three amateur riders that went by, let's not blame the camera guys.
it wasn't one of the OLN filmer people. is was one of RP's guys.
you are not responsible for that. but RP officials are.
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny & Monica
An Pappy We`re drinking beer an talking smack at the motel lounge Fri. night Be there Ol`Boy We had A great time last year With Chuck buying shots
As much as I love sucking down free drinks, I have to pass on this round, its right smack dab in the middle of the best deer hunting around and honestly, Bill wont take me hunting and Chris is a lover not a killer so I will spend that weekend 20 feet up a tree...lol
Im trying to download the video now.
Posted by: joedirt
That video just ruined a perfectly good bashing thread.
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