[Honda TRX 700 XX vs. Raptor 700] - ATV Riders Forums - Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Polaris, CanAm, Arctic Cat, Kymco ATVsPages:1
Honda TRX 700 XX vs. Raptor 700
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Posted by: yAmAhA-rIdEr155
Anyone that know's anything about the new Honda that thinks they can tell me something different besides the Raptor 700 being the best needs to say something.
Posted by: speedyquad
have you read any of the posts on the new 700xx...it has not been welcomed by even the hardest of honda fans...it is not an impressive quad...honda had their head up their you know whats with this one...
Posted by: yAmAhA-rIdEr155
nah i havent been to em yet
Posted by: bossman525
the raptor will eat that machine's lunch. i think it will be to slow to get out of even it's own way.
Posted by: WoofersInc
The Honda is coming with IRS rear end. It is also substantially heavier as the listed weight for it is 508 LBS. Unless power is up big time on the Honda there is no way it will keep up with the Raptor. The IRS rear doesn't impress me either. It is ok for slow technical stuff but for high speed desert riding or dunes it has it's drawbacks.
Posted by: redrocker
I think the honda eng. started working
at yamaha a few years back as you can
see by everything yamaha makes
it's too bad because I used to be
a honda guy
Posted by: jrwisehart
I really dont think you can compare them.
the raptor is built to be mainly a duner
the 700xx is suppose to be more of a trail bike
Posted by: yAmAhA-rIdEr155
thanks for the posts
Posted by: MoRaptor02
quote:
Originally posted by jrwisehart
I really dont think you can compare them.
the raptor is built to be mainly a duner
the 700xx is suppose to be more of a trail bike
WHAT??? The Raptor is the best trail bike ive owned. The Raptor was not built for the dunes. Who knows what that 700xx is suppose to be for.
Posted by: RaptorLover
I DON'T KNOW WHY I'M WASTING MY TIME POSTING ABOUT A HONDA , BUT HERE GOES ....
TRX700XX8 Metallic Black/Silver $7,899.00
Metallic Black/Red $7,899.00
The TRX700XX re-defines the Sport category of ATVs with a whole new level of confidence, comfort and high performance. With double-wishbone Independent Rear Suspension (IRS), a unique centered chain drive system, and a fuel-injected 686cc engine making monster torque, the TRX700XX is truly the new Sport ATV "King of the Hill."
Unique Features:
All-new 686cc SOHC liquid-cooled fuel-injected four-valve single-cylinder four-stroke engine.
Double-wishbone Independent Rear Suspension (IRS) with tuned sway-bar.
Centered chain final drive system.
In-gear starting in Forward or easy-to-use Reverse.
Piggy-back rear shocks with adjustable pre-load.
Dual-spring front shocks with adjustable pre-load.
11-inch diameter rear rims with removable mud scrapers.
Radical new-style bodywork.
Available colors are Metallic Black / Silver and Metallic Black / Red.
Engine/Drivetrain
686cc SOHC, four-stroke engine generates the highest peak output in its class.
Liquid cooling provides consistent engine operating temperature in extreme conditions for maximum power and long engine life.
PGM fuel injection system with 44mm throttle body for excellent cold weather starting, lower maintainance and consistent performance at high altitudes (seeTechnology Section).
Gear-driven counterbalancer minimizes engine vibration for smooth, comfortable all-day riding.
Maintenance-free automatic cam-chain tensioner.
Closed crankcase vent system safeguards against engine oil contamination.
CD ignition with electronic advance.
USDA-qualified stainless steel muffler/spark arrester for quiet operation and maximum power.
Heavy-duty clutch stands up to sport-ATV demands.
High-efficiency dry-sump lubrication system features large-capacity oil tank for maximum engine cooling.
Rugged five-speed transmission with Reverse has components and ratios specifically designed for sport-ATV use.
Unique, centered transmission with its direct-line chain final drive allows optimum IRS double-wishbone A-arm design
Chassis/Suspension
Independent double-wishbone front suspension uses premium shock absorbers featuring dual single-rate springs that allow a lighter, more compact package with 9.36 inches of fully useable travel.
Independent double-wishbone rear suspension, made possible by the innovative centered chain drive system - features steel upper and aluminum lower A-arms. Using piggy-back reservoir shocks, the system provides 10.6 inches of fully useable travel.
Steel frame with removable sub-frame is extremely durable and strong.
Triple disc brakes for excellent stopping power and weight savings.
Special, large-diameter 11-inch aluminum rear wheels allow for ideal CV joint angles and A-arm lengths, resulting in superior power delivery, optimum suspension action and improved durability.
Radial tires with knobby pattern provide superb traction and cornering ability.
Durable, heavy-duty O-ring-sealed drive chain.
Easy-to-use dual snail-cam eccentric chain adjusters
Additional Features
Engine design meets current California Air Resources Board (CARB) off-road emission standards.
Convenient push-button electric starting.
Sculpted, plush seat provides excellent comfort and superb sport riding ergonomics.
New and uniquely aggressive sports styling.
Cowl-integrated headlight with dual 30-watt bulbs provides distinctive sport style and excellent function
Rear LED brakelight.
Easy access to washable two-stage large-capacity foam air filter.
Tough, polyethelene push bar up front and polypropelene rear A-arm protectors.
High Impact urethane protects frame and engine cases..
Rear mudguards with rigid footrests.
8 AH Maintenance-free battery.
Keyed ignition switch offers added security.
Simple to operate multi-function handlebar switch.
Left-hand operated parking brake.
Tool kit includes tire-pressure air gauge and owner's manual.
Transferable one-year, limited warranty; extended coverage available with a Honda Protection Plan.
Purchase of a new, previously unregistered Honda USA-certified unit by an individual retail user in the United States qualifies the owner for a one-year complimentary membership in the Honda Rider's Club of America® (HRCA®). Visit www.hrca.honda.com for details.
Model: TRX700XX
Engine Type: 686cc liquid-cooled SOHC dry-sump single-cylinder four-stroke
Bore and Stroke: 102mm x 84mm
Induction: Keihin PGM-FI with a 44mm throttle-body fuel injection system
Ignition: CD with electronic advance
Starter: Electric
Clutch: Manual
Transmission: ESP five-speed with Reverse
Driveline: O-ring-sealed #520 chain
Suspension Front: Independent double-wishbone with dual single-rate springs provide 9.3 inches of travel.
Rear: Independent double-wishbone with piggy-back reservoir shocks provide 10.6 inches of travel
Brakes Front: Dual hydraulic 174 mm discs
Rear: Single hydraulic 200mm disc
Tires Front: 21 X 7R 10
Rear: 22 X 9R 11
Length: 73.9 inches
Width: 46.3 inches
Height: 45.4 inches
Seat Height: 33 inches
Ground Clearance: 10.5 inches
Wheelbase: 50.0 inches
Turning Radius: 8.5 feet
Fuel Capacity: 3 gallons
Colors: Metallic Black/Silver, Metallic Black / Red
Curb Weight*: 508 pounds
Posted by: RaptorLover
The TOPIC says Honda 700 vs. Raptor 700 , my opinion is that , the 700xx , wil be a waste of time and money , it's way to heavy , and I don't think it have nearly the power that the Yamaha have , IRS - We people here in South-Afrika don't really like IRS , if it was a solid rear axle it would have been a bit better.... BUT thats just all what I THINK .....
Posted by: speedyquad
quote:
Originally posted by RaptorLover
The TOPIC says Honda 700 vs. Raptor 700 , my opinion is that , the 700xx , wil be a waste of time and money , it's way to heavy , and I don't think it have nearly the power that the Yamaha have , IRS - We people here in South-Afrika don't really like IRS , if it was a solid rear axle it would have been a bit better.... BUT thats just all what I THINK .....
wow, in one post you have repeated what almost every one has said in other threads on this...even the die hard honda people agree with that. there is much disappointment about this new "great" atv. it is def. a let down
Posted by: roc64
quote:
Originally posted by jrwisehart
I really dont think you can compare them.
the raptor is built to be mainly a duner
the 700xx is suppose to be more of a trail bike
That may be the STUPIDEST statement I have ever heard anyone say about the Raptor!!!!
Get a clue!
Posted by: wolfpack13
No one here has rode it, or even seen the beast in person. How come so many can give a opinion with such little knowlege about the object?
Not trying to be an @$$ here but I don't really think that it was directed at the Raptor.
Posted by: speedyquad
quote:
Originally posted by wolfpack13
Not trying to be an @$$ here but I don't really think that it was directed at the Raptor.
that is why all of us honda guys hate it, we have been wanting something that is directed directly at the raptor, but instead honda gave us this tank.
between this adn the starting issues i have on my 450r. i can honestly say, i am no longer a die hard honda guy. i will consider and purchase another brand for my next quad. i have bought my last honda for a while
Posted by: yAmAhA-rIdEr155
i hate it also, they should work on the body stlye a little more
Posted by: cjkranz
and just FYI, the raptor 700R is a GREAT dune quad. Of all the atvs I have had over the years (>25) this is my favorite dune quad yet...
Posted by: yAmAhA-rIdEr155
raptor 700 wins by a long shot in my opinion
Posted by: rbgnwa45
Something that caught my eye was the high rear end ground clearance, this looks like a great trail quad! Don't come to any conclusions, even after the magazines review it. Wait till there are a few ride reviews! 21/front and 22/rear tires look nice too! Why would Honda copy the raptor? I'd like Honda to do it's own thing! The more I look at it the more I want it.
Posted by: pred174
Im pretty sure there is a new king of the hill and it isn't a honda or yamaha....
Posted by: atvRiDa400ex
quote:
Originally posted by pred174
Im pretty sure there is a new king of the hill and it isn't a honda or yamaha....
who?? polaris?? ktm?? maybe
Posted by: yAmAhA-rIdEr155
no one makes a better trail bike than honda or yamaha
Posted by: pred174
outlaw 525s, test drove one at the dealer a week ago and its got plenty more get up and go compared to 525irs...yeah the ktm will be faster but if your just gonna be riding the dunes you would be better off with the outlaw....u could put that 2k that u save towards bbk and put some shocks on it for that price
Posted by: 250r4life
quote:
Originally posted by pred174
outlaw 525s, test drove one at the dealer a week ago and its got plenty more get up and go compared to 525irs...yeah the ktm will be faster but if your just gonna be riding the dunes you would be better off with the outlaw....u could put that 2k that u save towards bbk and put some shocks on it for that price
oh brother...
Posted by: redrocker
They should have never stopped
building the atc 70!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: force
THE FRONT END BODY STYLING HAS TO BE THE UGLIEST/DUMBEST DESIGN EVER.
WHAT THE H*** IS THIS THING SUPPOSED TO BE? REMINDS ME OF THE POS VFORCE.
Posted by: QuadManiac
Don't go overboard with the weight issue... 700XX wieght is stated as fully wet, Raptor as fully dry. Real difference in weight is more like 50 lbs.
Posted by: TheNewn
quote:
Originally posted by QuadManiac
Don't go overboard with the weight issue... 700XX wieght is stated as fully wet, Raptor as fully dry. Real difference in weight is more like 50 lbs.
No kidding, everyone is going on and on about how much of a tank it is. They for some reason dont look at the little thing that says "curb weight" next to the number. Full fluids, full gas tank.
Its not *that* much heavier than the raptor, I'm sure it'll be a perfect quad for someone who rides woods a lot, with a lot of mud.
I'm sure it wont be that hard to ditch the ugly looking front end with something aftermarket as well. I think it has the potential to be a great quad.
*I* just wouldnt buy it. 
Posted by: speedyquad
but thin about it this way, who is mos tlikely going to be buying this big machine...the larger guy that might not fit as well on any other bikes. so before you even add in the 50 lbs(which really is a lot) of the bike, the rider may already be at an 50 or 70 lb disadvantage...
to my point, i am a smaller guy @ 152 lbs, a few of my friends who weigh significantly more than i do with essentially a twin bike(one was on a 400ex, and one is on a 450r/ltr450) would always lose in a drag race/distance race. they were somewhere between 80-100 lbs heavier. the only difference in the bikes being the brand of exhaust, every thing was almost exactly the same...
the bigger guy may not always be the one buying the bike, but it will be a good portion of the time
Posted by: MoRaptor02
My Raptor 700 is 480 curb weight. So theres not that much differance.
Posted by: QuadManiac
quote:
Originally posted by MoRaptor02
My Raptor 700 is 480 curb weight. So theres not that much differance.
BINGO!
Posted by: MoRaptor02
BINGO WHAT ???? Did I win something or what? LOL
Posted by: QuadManiac
You won the prize for logical thinking. It's not worth much though.
Posted by: MoRaptor02
Damn it. I thought I won something. Yeah I see people talking about the weight of different 4 wheelers, usually without saying anything. But you know Honda is making a run at the big bore yamaha finally. Im glad tehy are. I dont think its much of a run but its a start i guess. LOL
Posted by: FoxHondaRider
actually if you see the 700xx in different views or in action its really impressive. at 1st at the unveiling i though what is honda doing but once you see all angles its an 05-07 400ex plastics with almost a raptor grill sitting below. I think Honda needs to change a little bit but i look at it as honda made its 1st big bore sport qaud so give it time. Honda basically started sport quads with the 400ex and then the sport really grew with 4 strokes. As of now though I deffinately like the raptor way better. IRS doesnt impress me much and seems to take away the sporty look or thought of it IMO. Raptor is nice and alway has been.
Posted by: TheNewn
I'm sure the 700XX will be great for Woods/leisurely trail riding. Thats about it.
I'd say there's definitely a market for that kind of thing. Oh well, *I* wont buy it.
And Honda by no means 'started' sport quads with the 400EX. Believe it or not the 250R/Banshee/LT250 and others were around way before the 400ex ever was. Honda may have revitalized the sport industry, but they're falling behind now. In my opinion.
Posted by: laplap
quote:
Originally posted by MoRaptor02
My Raptor 700 is 480 curb weight. So theres not that much differance.
WHAT DO YOU HAVE 27 INCH TIRES OR SOMETHING? WET ITS NO MORE THEN 440 WITH HAND GAURDS/FULL SKIDS/GNCC'S
Posted by: MoRaptor02
No I just have dual LTE's, 20in Razr2 on baja rims on the rear. prm summit bumper and desert grab bar. Thats it. 480lbs. I didnt think it would weight that much either. But it did.
Posted by: QuadManiac
Honestly, how many ppl. besides Mo, have actually weighed thier rides?
Posted by: 250r4life
quote:
Originally posted by QuadManiac
Honestly, how many ppl. besides Mo, have actually weighed thier rides?
not many
Posted by: LotusPosition
480 lbs curb weight? I would seriously question the scale's accuracy.
Posted by: homer
480? With Razr2's and baja wheels I would figure it would be more like 500. I think ALOT of people would be suprised if they weighed their machine ready to run. So many people compare advertized weights like they are gospel and act like 10-20 pounds are going to make a big difference. I bet you could take 95% of the people on these forums, attach a 25 pound weight to the bottom of their quad without them knowing, and they wouldn't be able to tell a difference. The other 5% are pro's and they actually push their quads to the limit and they would be able to tell a difference, but still be able to ride it almost as fast.
The exception to this is of course drag racing and neither of these quads was ment for drag racing in stock form anyway.
Posted by: MoRaptor02
quote:
Originally posted by homer
480? With Razr2's and baja wheels I would figure it would be more like 500. I think ALOT of people would be suprised if they weighed their machine ready to run. So many people compare advertized weights like they are gospel and act like 10-20 pounds are going to make a big difference. I bet you could take 95% of the people on these forums, attach a 25 pound weight to the bottom of their quad without them knowing, and they wouldn't be able to tell a difference. The other 5% are pro's and they actually push their quads to the limit and they would be able to tell a difference, but still be able to ride it almost as fast.
The exception to this is of course drag racing and neither of these quads was ment for drag racing in stock form anyway.
You lose 1 hp for every 7 pounds. Thats why my fat *** doesnt drag race much. LOL
Posted by: QuadManiac
quote:
Originally posted by MoRaptor02
You lose 1 hp for every 7 pounds. Thats why my fat *** doesnt drag race much. LOL
What part of physics does this formula come from? I'm certainly unfamiliar with it, after a pretty good engineering education and career. Additional weight reduces acceleration and there's no direct relationship with power required unless you define either the straight line acceleration desired or the angle of the incline you must climb.
with the relationship, as described, at 7 lbs / hp... a semi-typical quad and rider at 550 lbs would be able to go nowhere without at least 78 hp. You're mixing apples and oranges.
Now, if you're implying that by adding 1 hp to the stock output, you can add 7 lbs and still accelerate at the same rate, there may well be some credence to that... In that case, my 250 lb lard butt is screwed, just like yours, lol, so ignore the rest of my statement!
Posted by: MoRaptor02
quote:
Originally posted by QuadManiac
What part of physics does this formula come from? I'm certainly unfamiliar with it, after a pretty good engineering education and career. Additional weight reduces acceleration and there's no direct relationship with power required unless you define either the straight line acceleration desired or the angle of the incline you must climb.
with the relationship, as described, at 7 lbs / hp... a semi-typical quad and rider at 550 lbs would be able to go nowhere without at least 78 hp. You're mixing apples and oranges.
Now, if you're implying that by adding 1 hp to the stock output, you can add 7 lbs and still accelerate at the same rate, there may well be some credence to that... In that case, my 250 lb lard butt is screwed, just like yours, lol, so ignore the rest of my statement!
Thats just what ive always heard 1hp per 7 pounds. Never really thought about it that much. But I do know That I can do anything I want to my Rappy 700 and im still not going to beat a 120 pounder on the same bike, or even a lower HP bike. But damn it I keep trying. LOL
Posted by: QuadManiac
We need to inhale a whole lot of helium.
Posted by: jesshamner
Honestly, I think Honda was trying to compete with the Renegade. They are both big bore sport/utility inspired trail quads with comfort and performance in mind. Emphasis on comfort.
Posted by: ATVX4
quote:
Originally posted by speedyquad
that is why all of us honda guys hate it, we have been wanting something that is directed directly at the raptor, but instead honda gave us this tank.
i can honestly say, i am no longer a die hard honda guy. i will consider and purchase another brand for my next quad. i have bought my last honda for a while
As a die hard honda guy also, I somewhat agree. I have rode sport quads my whole life. I have been waiting for Honda's answer to the Raptor, and I am not impressed. We wont even go into the issue of how it looks. That red/white/black SE raptor is SWEET!
However, At 43 years old and a lil overweight, It might be an ideal sport quad for me. A better ride, decent power, 5-speed. For now, I am going to wait untill it comes out and I hear some feedback about it. I just sold my 04 450R and I miss it. My 400ex as great as it is, is not cuttin it! Maybe a 416 kit and some shocks! LOL
Posted by: Ogener
quote:
Now, if you're implying that by adding 1 hp to the stock output, you can add 7 lbs and still accelerate at the same rate, there may well be some credence to that... In that case, my 250 lb lard butt is screwed, just like yours, lol, so ignore the rest of my statement!
I think thats what that statement means. If you lose 7lbs its like gaining 1hp ,you dont actually "gain" more hp but it feels like it. Or if you gain 7lbs you need 1hp to accelerate the same.
Posted by: #17YFZRACER
369.5lbs wet
take that 
Posted by: 07trx400ex
The Honda 700XX will be making 7 more hp than than the Raptor 700r.
Posted by: MadDog56
quote:
Originally posted by 07trx400ex
The Honda 700XX will be making 7 more hp than than the Raptor 700r.
And where does that number come from?
Posted by: RaptorLover
I still thing Raptor is better than the Honda , and will never buy the honda .... Raptor is a great quad , and I think Honda will need about 2 years or more to get the Honda to the same level as a Raptor or a Renegade !! My Opinion !
Posted by: TheNewn
quote:
Originally posted by RaptorLover
I still thing Raptor is better than the Honda , and will never buy the honda .... Raptor is a great quad , and I think Honda will need about 2 years or more to get the Honda to the same level as a Raptor or a Renegade !! My Opinion !
How do you know? It's not even released yet, for all anyone knows, it could blow the raptor/renegade out of the water.
And as for the other post, Where does the guy get his information from saying the 700xx will have 7 more hp than the raptor stock? I wave the BS flag on that, and if i had two of them, i'd wave them both.
Posted by: Evasiveone
quote:
Originally posted by TheNewn
And as for the other post, Where does the guy get his information from saying the 700xx will have 7 more hp than the raptor stock? I wave the BS flag on that, and if i had two of them, i'd wave them both.
He is basing this off of the California Air Resource Board numbers where they test the engines for California emmisions. The Raptor 700 is putting out 46.9 HP at the crank and the new 700xx is putting out 53 hp at the crank for a difference of 6.1 crank HP difference. The Rappy is running 9.1:1 compression and the 700xx is running 10.0:1 compression.
Posted by: reconranger
I couldn't take the time to read all the replies to this post, so excuse me if this has already been said.....
It is a mistake to compare these two machines! They are both 700cc....that is about all they have in common!!! Having IRS, puts the Honda in an entirely different class than the SRA Raptor....making it an apples vs oranges comparison.
The one thing the Honda has going for it is that it has a very high tech engine....along the lines of the current crop of 450's. It has a little slipper piston with low reciprocating weight...this isn't just a warmed over and bored out XR650 engine! This thing should really scream!!! It should be more of a rever, and not so much a torquer like the Raptor.
Personally, I don't have any need for IRS, and the machine is going to be 150 pounds heavier than my 450R....so it doesn't look very promising....at least not on paper.
Take this engine and put it in a light SRA frame (it would need a new bottom end, as the current engine is center-line drive), and I might be first in line.....
Posted by: TheNewn
The Raptor is made to be a great trail bike, the same intention that honda has for this 700xx i imagine. How are they not comparable? They are both made for the same thing, trails, which most people do. It wouldn't make sense to NOT compare two quads that were intended for the same general purpose.
Posted by: reconranger
An 800 pound utility is made for the "trails", so now we are going to say that thing is in the same class as the Raptor too????
You are certainly welcome to compare their performance out on the "trails"....uh once someone has actually ridden one...which noone has so far so we don't actually know what kind of quad it actually is....but nothing changes the fact that they are an apple and an orange!!!
Posted by: TheNewn
Without going to a stupid extreme, which seems to be popular, i'll try to explain myself further.
The 700xx IS a sport quad 2 wheel drive, chain drive, with IRS. Just like the Outlaw 525 IRS. Both are great (as far as i can tell in one case) attempts at creating a comfortable, fast trail quad.
The Raptor is designed to be a trail quad as well. Also a 2 wheel drive, chain driven sport quad. The Raptor and the XX have ONE key difference, IRS vs SRA. And if you're a fast trail rider looking for a nice sport quad they BOTH fall into the same category.
Just like people compare the Outlaw IRS's to the Raptor, i think the XX compares as well.
I wont even bother with the dumb 800 pound utility comment.
Posted by: reconranger
You know darn well that the point of the original post was some adolescent "Which Is Faster" kind of post...mostly I was reacting to the stupididy of that seeing absolutely nobody has ridden the Honda. All we are all doing is mental masterbation about what it looks like on paper....which doesn't mean much.
Got to say for what I ride, the machine looks like it will be useless and way to heavy...just like an IRS Outlaw, but at least that is an apples to apples comparison!
Posted by: MadDog56
Ahh good old reconranger, good to see you. On spec the machines are not in the same class, I agree with you 100% on that one. The 700xx matches up much better with the 525 outlaw.
But when someone starts shopping for a new trail quad, they're going to be comparing the 700R and the 700XX. The same guy is going to be looking at both machines and wondering "which should I buy?" So while your argument makes sense on paper, in the real world it is important how these two stack up against each other.
Posted by: reconranger
There is a replacement for displacement....and it is engine design!
May issue of DirtWheels, big bore shootout between the Raptor 700 and the 525's....dyno chart on page 58. The KTM525 absolutely kicks the Raptors butt:
Raptor- 41.4 max hp @ 6000 rpm...Raptor hp totally checks out early after that!
KTM- 44.6 max hp, but most important is that the KTM makes that horsepower at 8000 rpm....2000 rpm higher than the Raptor!!!
So what's my point here (besides making you Raptor owner's cringe)??? The Honda engine design is like the 450/525's: oversquare with a little slipper piston and low reciprocating weight. This engine isn't just a warmed over old school XR650 bored out a little. This engine is going to absolutely scream!!!
The problem I see for Honda, is that they put this engine in a rather heavy IRS frame that will probably have lots of body roll and is going to have limited specialized applications....like rutted eastern trails and rocky technical stuff (places where most folks are just going to ride a 4X4 instead!). No doubt as MadDog has pointed out, folks will buy it anyway just because of the number "700".....totally oblivious of the frame design.....
Posted by: MadDog56
Hey no doubt Honda will have built a great engine, just too bad that they're three quarters of a decade late to the big bore market. 
If they'd have stepped up and made an SRA version that was almost as good 5 years ago I'd be riding red right now.
Posted by: xrdrsux
what do you have maddog
Posted by: MadDog56
quote:
Originally posted by xrdrsux
what do you have maddog
Just an old beat up 2003 660 Raptor.
Posted by: TheNewn
quote:
Originally posted by reconranger
There is a replacement for displacement....and it is engine design!
May issue of DirtWheels, big bore shootout between the Raptor 700 and the 525's....dyno chart on page 58. The KTM525 absolutely kicks the Raptors butt:
Raptor- 41.4 max hp @ 6000 rpm...Raptor hp totally checks out early after that!
KTM- 44.6 max hp, but most important is that the KTM makes that horsepower at 8000 rpm....2000 rpm higher than the Raptor!!!
So what's my point here (besides making you Raptor owner's cringe)??? The Honda engine design is like the 450/525's: oversquare with a little slipper piston and low reciprocating weight. This engine isn't just a warmed over old school XR650 bored out a little. This engine is going to absolutely scream!!!
The problem I see for Honda, is that they put this engine in a rather heavy IRS frame that will probably have lots of body roll and is going to have limited specialized applications....like rutted eastern trails and rocky technical stuff (places where most folks are just going to ride a 4X4 instead!). No doubt as MadDog has pointed out, folks will buy it anyway just because of the number "700".....totally oblivious of the frame design.....
You ARE comparing an XC RACE bike to a TRAIL bike. The YFZ has almost as much power as the Raptor does stock as well, its a RACE bike. The Raptor's motor is capable of more power in the aftermarket than the KTM's.
The Raptor has lower compression, more restricted exhaust and intake, and a mild cam compared to the KTM.
You give both of them the Big 3, and the Raptor will make more power. with the lower compression and the mild cam.
Mad Dog made the perfect point i was trying to make. When people go shopping for a new big bore sport quad for fast trail riding, they're going to compare this new Honda to the Raptor.
It all comes down to how much it costs if its going to sell or not. People are buying the Outlaw's. They'll buy Honda's version of it if the price is right.
Posted by: xrdrsux
quote:
Originally posted by MadDog56
Just an old beat up 2003 660 Raptor.
do you have the 660R or the 660 RR
Posted by: reconranger
I have also always wondered why Honda didn't immediately put the XR650 engine in a quad......
But in retrospect, what would be the point when they already had the CRF450X on the drawing board. The 450's are beating the 650's in the big desert endurance races like Baja....so I now totally see what Honda's point was.....do more with less!!!!
It is clear that on the high preformance machines, Honda has put all its eggs in the little slipper piston basket....and they have carried this along to this 700.
Posted by: MadDog56
quote:
Originally posted by xrdrsux
do you have the 660R or the 660 RR
There is no 660RR, the only other model Yamaha ever released of the 660R was the LE models, which were identical to the regular models with the exception of a different color scheme and graphics.
Posted by: xrdrsux
Do you really want me to post the link of the 660 RR lmao
Posted by: MadDog56
quote:
Originally posted by xrdrsux
Do you really want me to post the link of the 660 RR lmao
The model is and always was the 660R. Each year had it's own designation after the first "R".
2001 was YFM660RN
2002 was YFM660RP
2003 was YFM660RR
2004 was YFM660RS
2005 was YFM660RT
LE models were YFM660RLE* where * was the yearly designation.
YAMAHA uses the same letter designation for ALL ATVS produced for that model year, the letter doesn't have anything to do with any type of different or special edition within the same year.
There were changes in the 2002, 2004 and 2005 model years. The 2003 is identical to the 2002 model with the exception of the color schemes.
Posted by: xrdrsux
?
Posted by: MadDog56
Nice try, but that old trick has been played out.
Guess this is what I get for trying to participate in an intelligent discussion on this board.
Posted by: xrdrsux
nope..just messin with ya MD. its been an epidemic.
Posted by: csr250r
quote:
Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
actually if you see the 700xx in different views or in action its really impressive. at 1st at the unveiling i though what is honda doing but once you see all angles its an 05-07 400ex plastics with almost a raptor grill sitting below. I think Honda needs to change a little bit but i look at it as honda made its 1st big bore sport qaud so give it time. Honda basically started sport quads with the 400ex and then the sport really grew with 4 strokes. As of now though I deffinately like the raptor way better. IRS doesnt impress me much and seems to take away the sporty look or thought of it IMO. Raptor is nice and alway has been.
hey there... honda started sport quads with the 2 fiddy r, not the 400ex i would take an r over an ex anyday.
Posted by: TheNewn
The 250R did not start the sport quad industry. It was not the first 250 2 stroke quad out, pretty sure that goes to the LT250r, Suzuki.
Suzuki probably 'started' high performance atv's. And honda REstarted it, with the 400EX.
Posted by: trailin'me
i own a trx700 with a powercommander using my own map ..full exhaust...and an aluminum airbox i fabricated myself and no raptor yet can keep up with me on trails here in the riverbulffs. this beast whips *** in the sand ... hillclimb...jumps..and usable speed on course. while im climbing and my roost is flying all over the raptor behind me ..the raptor is getting high-centered on the rear axle ... oh yeah what is a rear axle for anyway?
i think the raptors would be better in a straight up dragrace on hardpack...as far as handling and sheer pleasure .. sorry raptor fanboys.
honestly ... i cant wait till i can find the right sized tires for this ... these oem tires are alright ...rather have some mudlites.
im not a honda or yamaha or anything fan ... i like good stuff. i honestly prefer my ninja ..and to go fast ...but again ..this trx700 is a brute.
Posted by: Krandall
I'm sure the 700xx is fast I don't doubt it one bit. But... There's people racing the Raptor. I don't expect to see any 700xx's racing they have 2 things going against them.
IRS and the Weight.
As far as this:
i think the raptors would be better in a straight up dragrace on hardpack...as far as handling and sheer pleasure .. sorry raptor fanboys.
I'd be glad to race ya in the woods some time. my piece of crap raptor can hold it's own. 
it's MORE than pleasure riding it and handling is amazing.
Posted by: jesshamner
quote:
Originally posted by Krandall
I'm sure the 700xx is fast I don't doubt it one bit. But... There's people racing the Raptor. I don't expect to see any 700xx's racing they have 2 things going against them.
IRS and the Weight.
All of the utes are heavy and people race those. Some even beat the raptors.
Posted by: Krandall
I don't disagree, but the people racing the utes are doing it I'd guess for the 4wd option. I just ddno't see an advantage to the 700xx.
Posted by: jesshamner
There may not be an advantage. There doesn't have to be. It would just be dumb for honda to sit back and not get into that market. I mean they were dumb enough to wait this long but still there is money to be had for them.
Posted by: Krandall
Agreed. They'll make sales for sure on them. The die hard honda lovers have been waiting for a BB 2wd quad!
Posted by: trailin'me
looking through these forums ..seems the 700xx's are already winning baja's and sanddrags. my personal preference is motox ... not into making mini-sprint cars that go around a 1/8 or 1/2 mile track. to each is their own though.
nobody can deny honda makes strong motors and good equipment ... 6 months - a year we will see who the king of the mountain really is.
im kinda excited to havea different machine which will probably cause many rules to change ... maybe even a new class of racing ...all i know at the end of the day... jump after jump after jump im in much better shape riding on this trx700 than i was on any solid rear axle machine.
lastly ...ill strongly say i am no fanboy of any brand ..but years and years of using atv's in the oilfield industry in the worst environments God ever created ...running some 12hrs a day / 7 days a week ..only the honda foreman stood the brutality ... 2nd was the yamaha kodiak.... not this es foreman ..but the original foreman 400 4x4
Posted by: RATPACK Z400
the honda is only the most used quad in baja cause of FREE support to honda riders so you (if) not a high dollar raceteam would be retarded not to enter a honda product in baja. as far as the 700xx it has LOST every shootout its been in it lost to the700r in my opion and the outlaw neither of the test riders or mags have given it props.and have said the same the bodyroll,weight,no adjustment on rear shocks. it gets beat in hillclimbing (do 2 its weight), turns (excess bodyroll) and top heavy im sure,the wheels in rear are bigger than front also have affect on handling as well. to say it better than a raptor IS a premature statement for one and sra WILL out handle a irs period the irs IS more comfort in handling but not faster in handling dept.
Posted by: ghouck
No matter what you think of the Honda, this will keep Yamaha on it's toes. If this thing does nothing else but to keep Yamaha thinking hard about future improvements to the Rappy, then It's OK in my book, even if I won't ever buy one (hardcore anti-honda guy here)
Posted by: scuzz
quote:
Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
for one and sra WILL out handle a irs period the irs IS more comfort in handling but not faster in handling dept.
I believe that IRS is better on the trail or rocky conditions that will be beating the crap out of the rear swing arm on a 700r with it's 4.4 inches of ground clearance. So unless you guy larger ground clearance (in the way of larger tires) I think you'll be either hung up or using your rear skid more than you would want.
Baja...blahblah. The fact is that almost all off road racer trucks and buggies use IRS, the only ones who use SRA would be the stock class. It will take a while to perfect. But I do see this as a better alternative to SRA.
Don't get me wrong, I felt *just* like you guys about IRS before I got it. All it took was one landing on an off-camber landing and going down a technical descent with huge rocks. My SRA buddies had to dig their handlbars out of the trail face and I just leaned and went through. (i.e. HUGE rock on the righ which makes your quad lean to the left and pushing the bars into the object on the left side of the trail. I trail ride 80% and sand ride 20% of the time. The sand riding and the extra ground clearance is nice too as my buddies would lose momentum dragging their skidplates up rutted trails. For these trails I could litterally go up with only one hand on the bars. (gotta give it gas)
Now, let's talk about it's faults.
OMG - body roll. Yep it does. Doing donuts always means doing it on three wheels with the inside wheel hoping to get a piece of something to hold on to. What could the aftermarket do to improve that? Someone could make a stiffer sway bar. The stock one looks like it's the bigger brother of something you would use to unlock your door on your car when you locked the keys in it.
Looks - I'm not a big fan (either) of the front end. It looks loke a manta ray or something out of the 60's Batman show.
Weight - Yeah it's heavier than most (thanks to the VForce) 700 quads out there. I'm willing to bet that once the 525 IRS goes to FI that the added weight of the fuel injection will bring the weights a little closer. It would be cool if Honda would grow some balls and make an aluminum fram like the Raptors. (well, back half anyway) All this stuff ads up Honda!
Posted by: Krandall
It would be cool if Honda would grow some balls and make an aluminum fram like the Raptors. (well, back half anyway) All this stuff ads up Honda.
To say something FOR honda keeping the steel frame.
I'm a raptorsource.com member. and I've seen quite a few people break/snap their rear subframes from doing simple things as pulling a wheelie and 12 o'clocking it....
Mine is slightly bent from a wheely and hitting the grab bar... Sucks.... a nice $350 replacement. 
Posted by: scuzz
quote:
Originally posted by Krandall
To say something FOR honda keeping the steel frame.
I'm a raptorsource.com member. and I've seen quite a few people break/snap their rear subframes from doing simple things as pulling a wheelie and 12 o'clocking it....
Mine is slightly bent from a wheely and hitting the grab bar... Sucks.... a nice $350 replacement.
Iteresting! I didn't know that. My buddy with the 700r has a replacement whole frame just in case.
Posted by: jesshamner
An aluminum fram won't necessarily be that much lighter. Our Cannondale frames are built pretty beefy and rarely snap or even crack, but they're not ultra light by any means. If the manufacturers don't build frames like Cannondale did, you get what people are getting with the newer models with hybrid alum/moly and all aluminum frames = weak. Not to mention...you're talking about all that suspension flex of the IRS and then you want to throw it on a stiff Aluminum frame.
Looks like rear axle to me. http://cgmedia.daimlerchrysler.com/dcxms/assets/libraryImages/MoparBaja1000.jpg
http://www.desertracing.com/news/2008/douglas_amsoil_corr_truck2008.jpg
http://www.lighttruckbiz.com/images/article/1197477021826_GA%20Pro2.jpg
Posted by: scuzz
<------- was wrong about the IRS on baja trucks. What was I thinking?
Sorry guys.
Posted by: Krandall
Holy large picture batman.
Posted by: jesshamner
Yeah sorry about that. Posting that is probably worse than being wrong about trophy trucks having IRS. Sorry I got carried away. 
Posted by: RATPACK Z400
mark my words honda will make two versions an irs & sra when sales aren,t as good as the raptor! and there,s one more thing somebody bought up improvement for 700xx there cant be, you cant widen,only thing I see is shocks in rear and swaybar but that will improve it on a small scale. its probably needs frame & rear redesign ,and smaller rear wheels in imo. honda,s are great products its just imo that this 700xx is NOT what most diehard SPORT riders wanted. compare the 700xx to a 450 racequad or 700r is like comparing an enduro 600 to a CBR 600 in handling.
Posted by: rbgnwa45
Is there a huge advantage for ground clearance? How often do Raptors get hung up in the woods? IRS would make it a comfier and more tractable ride, those tires are also nice and tall. The Honda looks like the sportiest trail quad atm.
Posted by: trailin'me
quote:
Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
mark my words honda will make two versions an irs & sra when sales aren,t as good as the raptor! and there,s one more thing somebody bought up improvement for 700xx there cant be, you cant widen,only thing I see is shocks in rear and swaybar but that will improve it on a small scale. its probably needs frame & rear redesign ,and smaller rear wheels in imo. honda,s are great products its just imo that this 700xx is NOT what most diehard SPORT riders wanted. compare the 700xx to a 450 racequad or 700r is like comparing an enduro 600 to a CBR 600 in handling.
you can widen it and I have... there are rear a-arms in production right now as we speak ... and presently there are raptors in stores everywhere ... cant hardly find a 700xx where i live.... theyre all sold.
the issue you talk of raptors hanging up ... very simply put..they cannot go where a 700xx can .. they lack the power, torque, and ground clearance necessary for "real" trail riding.
Posted by: ghouck
The stores have Raptors because they know it's an item that will sell, and keep them in stock. The Honda dealers here won't even bother to get the 700 until they see more interest. Everyone I know that has looked into one changed their mind as soon as they test drive it. I know one person with one and he openly regrets getting it. This another example of Honda taking a road less traveled, and nobody following. Your "power and torque" statement shows you either don't know what you're talking about or have to resort to dishonesty to try and 'win' an argument. If you'd realize the only way to 'win' an argument is to not worry about being right or wrong, but rather try and come out of it SMARTER, you'd be doing well.
Posted by: trailin'me
quote:
Originally posted by ghouck
The stores have Raptors because they know it's an item that will sell, and keep them in stock. The Honda dealers here won't even bother to get the 700 until they see more interest. Everyone I know that has looked into one changed their mind as soon as they test drive one. I know one person with one and he openly regrets getting it. This another example of Honda taking a road less traveled, and nobody following.
thats kind of a dumb comment ... for every item on the planet i can find you someone that regrets getting that item. I really and truly doubt your comment about test riding a xx ..ive NEVER been to an atv dealer that would let me take an atv off the parking lot.... of any brand.
there isnt a raptor that could hold a candle to a xx in cross country racing... hell there isnt a quad period that can hold a candle to the xx in cross country or baja ..unless its a 450r... motorcross is old school .. and soon wont have the fanbase and following the gncc or baja circuits have...
this really is an issue of more of the same tired **** ..or evolution of a sport and what direction it is going in the future.
motorcycles will always have a popular following of motox ... quads were meant for another purpose ..and we are just getting to the surface of that now.
the only reason i could think of someone regretting getting an xx is because they may have a friend like you that is so single-minded they try to push their opinions on others to the point of making them feel inferior because they have something you don't agree with.
i like raptors ..but they are old and tired .. unreliable, and prone to breakdowns and general breakage ...
bring your raptor to wherever Im at ..or ill bring my xx to wherever you are ..and we can race all the way to the next town 20-30 miles away and id bet the farm id already be powerwashing my xx and on my second beer by the time you finished ..if you even did. that is a fact.
Posted by: rbgnwa45
Sorry, but..
Any baja championship is won by the rider alone. At those distances, it's not even 95% rider it's like 99%, so stop swearing up and down that the XX is anything better than a bunch of steel.
Also what if he found a road and you found a forrest during that race? You can bet the farm he'd drink 2 beers, wash his quad, then go out looking for you, while you get there and think you've won when you see him coming back. Don't be so arrogant, while telling people they're being arrogant.
Posted by: TheNewn
quote:
Originally posted by trailin'me
thats kind of a dumb comment ... for every item on the planet i can find you someone that regrets getting that item. I really and truly doubt your comment about test riding a xx ..ive NEVER been to an atv dealer that would let me take an atv off the parking lot.... of any brand.
there isnt a raptor that could hold a candle to a xx in cross country racing... hell there isnt a quad period that can hold a candle to the xx in cross country or baja ..unless its a 450r... motorcross is old school .. and soon wont have the fanbase and following the gncc or baja circuits have...
this really is an issue of more of the same tired **** ..or evolution of a sport and what direction it is going in the future.
motorcycles will always have a popular following of motox ... quads were meant for another purpose ..and we are just getting to the surface of that now.
the only reason i could think of someone regretting getting an xx is because they may have a friend like you that is so single-minded they try to push their opinions on others to the point of making them feel inferior because they have something you don't agree with.
i like raptors ..but they are old and tired .. unreliable, and prone to breakdowns and general breakage ...
bring your raptor to wherever Im at ..or ill bring my xx to wherever you are ..and we can race all the way to the next town 20-30 miles away and id bet the farm id already be powerwashing my xx and on my second beer by the time you finished ..if you even did. that is a fact.
I disagree with just about everything you said. Im not going to go into huge detail and write the bible here but i'll just say a couple things.
Our local dealership will not carry any 700xx's because they don believe they will sell, you have to order one, and no one has. Yet they have sold and carry Raptor 700s from day one. Its not an opinion, its a fact.
A 450R will hold a candle to a xx in cross country but the raptor wont?....suffice to say i disagree.
Some people are single minded, you're right about that.
Posted by: trailin'me
quote:
Originally posted by TheNewn
I disagree with just about everything you said. Im not going to go into huge detail and write the bible here but i'll just say a couple things.
Our local dealership will not carry any 700xx's because they don believe they will sell, you have to order one, and no one has. Yet they have sold and carry Raptor 700s from day one. Its not an opinion, its a fact.
A 450R will hold a candle to a xx in cross country but the raptor wont?....suffice to say i disagree.
Some people are single minded, you're right about that.
i dunno man ... baja is the king of the hill with xcountry racing .. didnt see a raptor even entered...wonder why. thats how i concluded a 450r can hold a candle .
it is the machine ... you cant beat a corvette with a mini ...
i dont care how good of a rider you are ..a machine always has its limits ..and arider is only as good as his machine will let him run. the only time it comes down to a rider is if all the machines are exactly the same (like nascar or f1/indy racing).
im not arrogant ... im saying truly in a 30-40 mile race your raptors wont make it ... they just wont whether it be mechanical break down, rider fatigue, or a whole slew of other issues... and why? because they were not designed for it where this xx was ... which leads me back to the machine.
look ..im not telling you to buy anything ... ride what yo uwant ..anyone can chose to ignore facts and justify whatever they want ..but while you are fixing stupid things on a raptor because it cant take the punishment of a real long distance race ... ill be washing my xx and drinking a beer.
one thing does stick out though... if your dealer doesnt have any and they have to order them ... how were you able to go ride one at the dealer and decide it was not good? just curious. i smell another hater just talking ****. ill call the dealer myself.
not all quads sell well in every region.
Posted by: TheNewn
my LOCAL dealer does not have any.
I left my town, and flew down south and visited another dealer in California.
Posted by: scuzz
quote:
Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
mark my words honda will make two versions an irs & sra when sales aren,t as good as the raptor!
I seriously doubt that.
quote:
Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
s are great products its just imo that this 700xx is NOT what most diehard SPORT riders wanted. compare the 700xx to a 450 racequad or 700r is like comparing an enduro 600 to a CBR 600 in handling.
I believe it does VERY well at what it was intended for as does the Outlaw IRS.
Posted by: GE4x4
My dealer only has one 700xx on the floor, but it's the same one they got in the fall. They have not sold one 700xx yet and have near $1400 off the one on the floor, yet still sits there. I live in NH which is very ruff trails and IRS is a must. But this quad just isn't catching on. On the other hand, all there 08 or older Outlaws are gone, and there just getting there 09's. So the Outlaws are doing fine.
As far as Baja goes, you won't see them on the 700 next year. The only reason they raced it was part of there contract with Honda. The Rincon won it also, yet that didn't get raced again.
Posted by: scuzz
That's not the case in the South. Ive seen several at my riding spots and the dealer where I bought mine at in Dallas has sold several.
Posted by: ghouck
quote:
I really and truly doubt your comment about test riding a xx
Of course you don't believe me, it's easier to accuse someone of dishonesty than it is to provide proof.
quote:
ive NEVER been to an atv dealer that would let me take an atv off the parking lot
First, whoever said anything about leaving the site? Second, I've NEVER had a dealer NOT let me test ride one. I could understand if you were a minor or did n't look like you were serious, or able to be serious about a purchase, bet every dealer I've went to has let me test ride as long as I brought a helmet. They'e NOT going to let you ride one if they think you're just looking for a quick ride.
quote:
i like raptors ..but they are old and tired .. unreliable, and prone to breakdowns and general breakage ...
Mine doesn't break down, perhaps it's not the quad's fault. . .
quote:
it is the machine ... you cant beat a corvette with a mini ...
If there were such a grand differece between the 700 and the Raptor as there is between the Corvette and the Mini, you wouldn't have to resort to accusing pretty much everyone opposing you of dishonesty.
Posted by: RATPACK Z400
too say the700xx is the best, cause it won baja 1000 is a joke the rincon also won as well that tells me if you ride a honda you have a chance to win .for one reason most dont know honda pits for free other hondas only! 95% riders ride honda look at how many hondas verse other brands you will see what im saying .id like to see the 700xx go to darkar without honda help only small pit crew and win that would be a real challege for that quad.
Posted by: scuzz
If a polaris can a 700xx could too.
Posted by: RATPACK Z400
only way honda wil enter is if they have clear advantage.they wont put that quad out too the true test now they need to sell a bunch first before it gets a beatdown by the other brands!
Posted by: ghouck
quote:
Originally posted by reconranger
So what's my point here (besides making you Raptor owner's cringe)???
Why would that little bit make ANYONE cringe? It just shows those outlaws are missing something else, because I'm not anywhere close to a pro, and I've eaten many 525s up. I question those HP number because the difference between the two stock is so glaring and universal.
Posted by: RATPACK Z400
The one thing that I always seem to run into on this forum is that the honda owners hate all other brands cause there doing MORE for there owners than honda has (IMPROVEMENTS) you watch that 700xx will get nothing as improvments (like the 250 300,400,450) it may get BOLD NEW GRAFIXS two years from now! HA HA!
Posted by: scuzz
I don't hate any one brand and happen to think the raptor is one of the best ATV's to come out since the 400EX.
Posted by: Backstabber
The 700xx is really a great machine!!! I love the Raptor as well, both are amazing quads and kick @$$ in the trail. I bought the Honda for the huge amounts of ground clearence. We all had the same issue last season and it was ground clearence. The trails had puddles in the middle of them and our rear axles would drag, wont be an issue with the 700xx. My friend who owns a yfz450 rode my xx and he came back with the look of a kid on christmas morning. This machine doesn't feel heavy and is an absolute rocket ship! Here is some video I've taken over the last few weeks with my helmet cam. The rappys haven't made it out yet but they will eventually. I ride with a fully built 700r and 660. I have no biased opinion, I like them all. This machine just had the complete package for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjWS...re=channel_page
Posted by: fulltiltrider
reading through this thread I find it funny that the wet weight of these machines are 480+lbs. No wonder these raptor and other big bore owners are so surprised when I buzz past on my 350lb wet trx310p/v R. Long live the 2 stroke!!! lol Let the bashing begin. hahaha
Posted by: coryatver
quote:
Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
The one thing that I always seem to run into on this forum is that the honda owners hate all other brands cause there doing MORE for there owners than honda has (IMPROVEMENTS) you watch that 700xx will get nothing as improvments (like the 250 300,400,450) it may get BOLD NEW GRAFIXS two years from now! HA HA!
honda gets it right the first time. If its not broke don't fix it. How about the yamaha banshee it had hardly any updates in like 25 years.
Posted by: ghouck
Yea, like that ex250? You know, the one that gets beat by 90s of a fairly regular basis. I think you got it all crossed up: HONDA doesn't seem to do improvements despite the need, while YAMAHA got it right the first time with the Banshee. LOL @ the guy claiming to buzz past Raptors, , the 250s maybe, , good one. .
Posted by: fulltiltrider
quote:
Originally posted by ghouck
LOL @ the guy claiming to buzz past Raptors, , the 250s maybe, , good one. .
Not trying to start a war here but, My R is 350lb wet, with a 310 esr p/v cylinder ported by Neil @C-Leigh Racing putting out around 58 hp to the wheels. Now Im not saying it will beat totally modded raptors but the majority of raptors I see are not modded with more than a pipe, efi controller, and a cam. Being there is over 100lbs in weight difference I dont care if you got 70hp Im buzzing by
I know they will beat me in the long run past say a 1/8 mile drag but how many 1/8th mile sraights do you find in the woods lol.
Posted by: ghouck
So your point is that a completely race modded quad can beat a semi-modded quad. Boy, big surprise there.
Your weight comparisons are a joke anyways, as is your "buzz right past", yet know you'll get beat on the trails and past 1/8th mile.
"Buzz right past" is what you admit happens to you out past the 1/8th. Yawn. . .
Posted by: fulltiltrider
quote:
Originally posted by ghouck
So your point is that a completely race modded quad can beat a semi-modded quad. Boy, big surprise there.
Your weight comparisons are a joke anyways, as is your "buzz right past", yet know you'll get beat on the trails and past 1/8th mile.
"Buzz right past" is what you admit happens to you out past the 1/8th. Yawn. . .
No chance that well built r would get beat in the trails by a 4 poke, aint happening. You have to remember the restrictions that were set in place even before they banned the 2 strokes in mx and xc, 265cc's. No wonder it was fair. Drop a 350pv in there and let them go head to head and see what happens lol. Its common knowledge that the newer 4 strokes rev higher than a 2 stroke. My R signs off at about 8000 rpms. A stock 450 revs to 10,500 rpms, hence why they go faster in the long run. Like I said how many 660ft straight aways do you find in the woods. Im not tryin to argue with ya man, I run with them all on a regular basis, build them on a regular basis, and if one is fast enough to beat my r I just pull out the hammer lol
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/jwhandel/Picture20033-1.jpg
Posted by: holtz
my question is, have any of you actually rode a 700xx ? i have owned both and i like the honda better, don't get me wrong, the raptor is an excellent quad as well but the honda is alot more comfortable. it all depends on what is most comfortable to you. the honda 700 has plenty of power but isn't the greatest in the sand due to the independent rear but it is one hell of a hill climber, i enjoy climbing hills more on the honda then i did on the raptor. but to each his own.
Posted by: sc400ex_rider
im sure honda will make a SRA for the XX to silence all the critics. they have been to busy building F-1 cars with 20k rpm v 8 engines. yamaha HASNT BUILT A CAR ENGINE since the 92 taurus SHO.......... LOL PWND.......
Posted by: toMKat
quote:
Originally posted by ghouck
Yea, like that ex250? You know, the one that gets beat by 90s of a fairly regular basis. I think you got it all crossed up: HONDA doesn't seem to do improvements despite the need, while YAMAHA got it right the first time with the Banshee. LOL @ the guy claiming to buzz past Raptors, , the 250s maybe, , good one. .
ummmm.... sorry but isnt the honda 250r one of the best quads ever assembled??? in fact all you yamaha turds call your local yamaha engineer and ask them what the YFZ450 is based off... yea... thats right... the honda 250r.
I was just on craigslist a couple weeks ago and this guy whose wife was havin tripletts was sellin his honda 250r, due to tripletts and no other reason, and there was literally like 5,000 bids on it and he sold the thing for 9,000. so until i see a bidding war and a sell price near 10,000 for a chromed out tubro bad *** banshee, honda rules the roost.
bottom line... most all quads are decent enough. if ppl didnt have a preference... how the hell would we all get our testosterone out! lol
Posted by: RATPACK Z400
Yeah and the 250r was based off the suzuki 250r so what! honda just improved it as did the rest of the brand,s ,there,s really only one kind of frame design that everybody,s copying for year,s cause they cant figure how to really improve.and it work,s.Not to down your quadzilla(awesome quad) but it,s wheels spins like there on ice in wet/muddy condition,s 4stroke would smoke you though but if condition where dry and no mud you would have a chance, speed in the woods isn,t all you need handling too and I seen for myself ,we took quadzilla for ride in wet conditions he had to turn back and go home cause the quad was bouncing off tree,s everytime he hit the gas wasn,t getting traction at all, wheel,s in rear just spun in place not trying to say quadzilla,s suck they just have too much wheel spin to gain traction it woods when wet/muddy.
Posted by: yamahahaha
I am a die hard yamaha fan but hondas 250r is a sweet fast bike, iv seen 250rs beat banshees and vice-versa, I wouldnt bash a 250r cuz it would beat most stock sport bikes today
Posted by: 08525IRS
quote:
Originally posted by holtz
the honda 700 has plenty of power but isn't the greatest in the sand due to the independent rear but it is one hell of a hill climber, i enjoy climbing hills more on the honda then i did on the raptor. but to each his own.
I agree with everything EXCEPT IRS quads not being performers in the dunes. I have an IRS outlaw and it runs great in the dunes you just need to learn how to ride the suspension.
Posted by: RATPACK Z400
The only thing with the 700xx just like the 700 kawi was is there too heavy and are gonna need lots of mods to get them to climb the hills as fast and high as the other quads ,we took the kawi 700 out when it came out to PA and my z could out climb it do to its weight it just dug in the shale and stop moving and im willing to bet the 700xx will do the same not trying to be a prick thats just my take on the whole thing.You know its funny Nobody gives Suzuki the credit they deserve for designing the first 250r race quad honda just treaked it ! suzuki,s quads were that good ,but were over shadowed by the new hondas,then the ban hit and suzuki never got there comeback till 2003 With the Z to put the 250r in retirement and let 4-strokes rule the world!
Posted by: sparks 450
well it seems like alot of people were wrong about the honda 700xx. It is heavier than the raptor but it is 2 mph faster,handles the ruff stuff better. As usual they dont seem to have any problem winning races.
Posted by: oilguy
raptor easy choice
Posted by: Backstabber
700xx easy choice.
Posted by: coolrunnings
700xx all the way, I just rode a raptor and it beat the holy hell out of me. If your ''RACER JOE'' who wants to prove something go straight axel, but if you love the smooth irs and awesome quality get the 700xx. The rapt just doesnt impress me at all.
Posted by: wannaride4
I am new the fourm thing, find some of it interesting. I have never rode with the honda 700, but I have rode with 2- 700 raptor's. And my polaris 525irs does most everything better, it drag races, jumps, climbs by far better, they both are the same on wheelie's. But I will say the 700 raptors will drift and slide better then mine, my 525irs will do the same but not near as easy as the solid axle of the raptor. His raptor is a blast to slide and drift with, they do spine around real nice. But anyway my choice would be neither. It would be by far the polaris 525irs.
Posted by: coolrunnings
quote:
Originally posted by wannaride4
I am new the fourm thing, find some of it interesting. I have never rode with the honda 700, but I have rode with 2- 700 raptor's. And my polaris 525irs does most everything better, it drag races, jumps, climbs by far better, they both are the same on wheelie's. But I will say the 700 raptors will drift and slide better then mine, my 525irs will do the same but not near as easy as the solid axle of the raptor. His raptor is a blast to slide and drift with, they do spine around real nice. But anyway my choice would be neither. It would be by far the polaris 525irs.
Of course the 525irs is the ultimate...you own it...lol.
Posted by: wannaride4
To be honest I am pretty open to new idea's. I am always one to look at the best of different wheeler's. So come ride with me and show me something better, for the rough stuff, power wise, jumping, hillclimbing, wheelie's and ground clearence for the all around riding. There are several wheeler's that can do what the 525irs and some that can do some things better, but there are few that is as good of an all around machine.
Posted by: debo
not too smart to post this in a yamaha forum....take it to the honda page an see the difference
Posted by: voodoo-rider365
I have an outlaw 500 and with mt ITP holeshot HD's it has very little body roll. By far the best tire for the Outlaw. Even in the dunes i prefer IRS. I ride in pretty small dunes where the chop from other riders is just amazing. LOL I love my IRS there. The only place i have a disadvantage is on the whoops. IRS does notta lika duh whoops...uh.
I prefer irs any day. Just not the XX. It is heavy and ugly and the rear suspension design is stupid. The rear shocks tops are in and the bottoms are out. That is just beggin for body roll. The outlaws shocks are close to vertical.
By the way the 525 outlaw weights 35-40 pounds more than a 450.
The XX needs some work, but has potential...give it a few years.
The raptor has amazing potential in the afermarket world which is why most raptors are awesome... with 15000 in it most other quads qould be too.
Posted by: Backstabber
quote:
Originally posted by voodoo-rider365
I have an outlaw 500 and with mt ITP holeshot HD's it has very little body roll. By far the best tire for the Outlaw. Even in the dunes i prefer IRS. I ride in pretty small dunes where the chop from other riders is just amazing. LOL I love my IRS there. The only place i have a disadvantage is on the whoops. IRS does notta lika duh whoops...uh. I prefer irs any day. Just not the XX. It is heavy and ugly and the rear suspension design is stupid. The rear shocks tops are in and the bottoms are out. That is just beggin for body roll. The outlaws shocks are close to vertical.
By the way the 525 outlaw weights 35-40 pounds more than a 450.
The XX needs some work, but has potential...give it a few years.
The raptor has amazing potential in the afermarket world which is why most raptors are awesome... with 15000 in it most other quads qould be too.
Haha, you must be an engineer since you know so much about the suspension design. I've raced fully built raptors with my xx and yes, they're fast. The XX actually have as much or more potential than the raptor. The XX unplugged from the stock parts is insanely fast. A lot of people are posting about the xx with no prior knowledge. I have a few vids of me racing raptors with fully built motors, both a 660r and 700r. Take a look at the XX's capabilities and power in my vids!!! Take the time to educate yourself! Thanks
http://www.youtube.com/user/fastfirstgen
Posted by: voodoo-rider365
I said the XX has potential. I have sat on one and seen one inn action. They are fast until you hit a corner. The baja racers say that you have to turn waaay early. When i sat on it i could rock it side to side like a boat.
When it first came out i swear i had a brick woody. Until i saw it.
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