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Suspension
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Posted by: GraphicDisorder

I have a 02 400ex. Mods listed below. Ive began to ride at tracks again, and the suspension is just bunk stock, rough ride, bottoming out, ect. So its time to upgrade. I wanna do this right but with the thought in mind im not actually racing the bike, I still ride some trails, and hill climb.

So what would you all suggest? Seems all the bikes that run at tracks almost all of them are on Elkas...see some works and few axis. Im not agaist spending that money but only if thats what I need. Few questions?

I have a +2 rear, so I assume it would be best to also upgrade a-arms to +2 or are the stock arms ok for what im doing? Should I be looking at long travel? Are the Elka recreational series enough or should I be looking at them with the resivors?

I am a big guy so my factory shocks just suck.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

Anyone?

Posted by: Flyin-Low

Check out my thread, I will have a rear Elka for sale soon. Don't bother with long travel unless you are going to race full time.

-Martin

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

Ok so no long travel, do you think the recreational series elkas are good enough for the front or get ones with resiviors? Arms?

Posted by: 400exMO

you won't need lt.
if your rear is already +2 you might want to go +2 in the front as well. Elka recs are good unless you ride long and hard. The resevoirs will help keep the shock coller and make for less shock fade. Plus rezzis look cool.

Posted by: JW450R1

long travel only if u are going to race full time.+2+1 a-arms work good on a 400ex.shocks i would go with elka triple rat with rezzies,and compresion and rebound.just so u can get more adjustment out of them.who no's what and how far you may be jump later on done the road.also look at some better a-arms there worth the extra money.east coast atv isn't too far from u.i have gibson a-arms on my 450r and love them.there ball joint hold up very good for mx riding.if u diside to go gibson talk to matt at ecatv.

Posted by: eliasxr400

I put Houser plus 2" arms with Works steelers up front. In the back, I had the rear shock resprung and revalved for my weight and MX. This cost around $1300 from C&D Racing. I put spacers in the back.
This set up is great. I do the same style of ridding that you discribed, some track, no racing, and mostly trails. No problems yet. They do not seem to fade to much even after 4-5 hard laps on an MX track. The plus 2' is not to much for tight trails. Didn't even notice the 49" width after a few rides. I have ridden recreational models from ohlins, elkas, and i-shocks and would put the works with if not above them all. The works are proubly the best non-rez "cheap" shocks. Rezys can be added later for like $250. They also look good. This is the best money I have ever spent on an ATV.

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

Ok so consenses is +2 arms, no LT, something with a resivior, and revalve/respring the rear shock and I should be in great shape?

I feel like I could ride with most riders with the right set up which I do untill I hit a few jumps and that bike just beats the crap outta me.

Thanks for the help so far.

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

Anyone else?

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

ttt, i really need to be sure I order the right stuff.

Posted by: Flyin-Low

you can get that elka I was talking about me for 500.. alot better than a revalved stocker.

Interested? Shoot me a pm.

-Martin

Posted by: TYayo420

hey can you post a pic of your quad? i want to see those black itp rims if u dont mind and can post one, thanks.

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

http://www.graphicdisorder.com/bstuff/quad/41407.jpg

http://www.graphicdisorder.com/bstuff/quad/brandt5.jpg

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

quote:
Originally posted by Flyin-Low
you can get that elka I was talking about me for 500.. alot better than a revalved stocker.

Interested? Shoot me a pm.

-Martin

Thanks but id have to have yours revalved also. Im most concerned with the front to start with. If you had fronts we would be talking.

Posted by: Flyin-Low

yeah, xc valve is a bit soft but I've never bottomed it out even when I have over shot jumps. Elka valving is pretty vague for the weight there.. you would need to be alot more or alot less for it to matter.

But yeah, keep me in mind... I want to get rid of this so I can do my susp. on the 450

Good luck.

-Martin

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

quote:
Originally posted by Flyin-Low
yeah, xc valve is a bit soft but I've never bottomed it out even when I have over shot jumps. Elka valving is pretty vague for the weight there.. you would need to be alot more or alot less for it to matter.

But yeah, keep me in mind... I want to get rid of this so I can do my susp. on the 450

Good luck.

-Martin

I will do, I just dont think i can afford to do a full front suspension and rear at the same time. I will have to do it in at least 2 sessions. Thanks.

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

Any other opinions?

Posted by: buster024

Depending on your time frame, you could definitely find deals on long travel set-ups. I got a used set of +1 Houser long travel arms for $400, that were in great shape. You can also get mx valved non-rezz long travel Elka's for around $500. Basically one grand gets you a long travel set-up that you'd love. If my math is right (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) you get over 3" of extra travel with the Houser/Elka combo. You can also send the Elka's in sometime in the future and have rezzi's with compression added.
I almost went standard travel, but after talking to alot of factory guys from Elka and Houser, as well as research online, I know I would be dissapointed had I not gone LT the first time.
Good Luck!!

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

Thanks for the input on the long travel, I will take that into account. Its my understanding also that just the Elkas increase the travel without being long travel correct?

Posted by: 450Rchaser

Check my sig. Rides awesome. probably gonna go w/ Elka's up front soon.

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

Werd. I would be all over the Elka rear but I just dont think I can afford to do fronts and rears at the same time. Trying to save a lil by just revalving/respringing the rear.

Posted by: buster024

quote:
Its my understanding also that just the Elkas increase the travel without being long travel correct?

To be honest, I believe they don't actually increase the travel per se, but rather how quickly they compress and rebound. The travel of the shock arm would (I think) remain the same, but how the shock reacts to jumps, cornering etc., would change dramatically.
The long travel is where you will really pick up extra distance. Not only with they compress (absorb) more than stock, but bottoming out will be reduced dramatically as well.
If you are anything like me, you'll want the best for your bike, and I don't think you can go wrong with an LT setup.

Posted by: buster024

quote:
Its my understanding also that just the Elkas increase the travel without being long travel correct?

Sorry, forgot this part. With Elka's (as well as other brands I would assume), if you decide to go standard travel, you can order your mx valved Elka's set up just for your stock suspension. Then you can save some dough up (all the while riding on NICE shocks), and potentially buy wider (not long travel) a-arms later down the road. All you would need at that point in time, is longer springs, which Elka will send you for like $30. You can do the install, and nothing else needs to change. If you do go LT arms up front though, you have to get LT shocks all at the same time (and vice-versa).

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

quote:
Originally posted by buster024
Sorry, forgot this part. With Elka's (as well as other brands I would assume), if you decide to go standard travel, you can order your mx valved Elka's set up just for your stock suspension. Then you can save some dough up (all the while riding on NICE shocks), and potentially buy wider (not long travel) a-arms later down the road. All you would need at that point in time, is longer springs, which Elka will send you for like $30. You can do the install, and nothing else needs to change. If you do go LT arms up front though, you have to get LT shocks all at the same time (and vice-versa).

Awesome info there, thats what i was looking for. Big thanks. This will help my choice. I dont know that i need long travel, i only hit hte track 2-3 times a month i do alot of trail riding ect.

Posted by: Flyin-Low

quote:
Originally posted by buster024
To be honest, I believe they don't actually increase the travel per se, but rather how quickly they compress and rebound. The travel of the shock arm would (I think) remain the same, but how the shock reacts to jumps, cornering etc., would change dramatically.
The long travel is where you will really pick up extra distance. Not only with they compress (absorb) more than stock, but bottoming out will be reduced dramatically as well.
If you are anything like me, you'll want the best for your bike, and I don't think you can go wrong with an LT setup.

Erm, not that I'm a suspension guru or anything. But this guy here knows nothing about suspension.

With elkas, you DO gain wheel travel, as with GT thunder and DeRisi rebuilds (not sure if C&D does the travel mod also?) They let the frame come closer to the ground before bottoming out. Not sure what elka or GT thunder is but DeRisi claims up to 2 more inches added travel.

Dual rate springs on aftermarket shocks allow you to set up the shocks better, and the aftermarket shocks come geared for YOUR weight and YOUR riding style... instead of a whole pile just picked off of a shelf. (though some claim elka just picks from a shelf)

As for longtravel, some claim its "one of the biggest advertising gimmicks today!" (GT thunder) This is because you can only get soo much travel before it causes issues with tuning the shocks.

Well, theres soooo much more to say but that's all for now

Posted by: Flyin-Low

Also, what he said about getting Elka's set up for standard a-arms is wrong.

You will NEED to send them in to get re-valved if you get wider a-arms, and I'm pretty sure they don't put in a "longer" spring, because wider a-arms don't add travel and the shock shaft is still going to be the same length

-Martin

Posted by: buster024

quote:
Also, what he said about getting Elka's set up for standard a-arms is wrong.

I definitely don't mind being wrong, but I'm curious where your info came from? I got mine from John at Elka. I really wanted to get Elka's, but couldn't afford new arms & new shocks at the same time. He assured me, that all I would need to buy was standard travel shocks, then send in for new springs once I purchased my wider arms. I would have to revalve if I went long travel ONLY.

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

Ok Flyin-Low, what do you suggest for my situation?

Posted by: buster024

Call Elka....they are awesome and will be a big help to you. Ask for John. You will probably get 100 opinions from us, but theirs will be right.

Posted by: jrm03

I run Elka Rec fronts and Elka Dual Rate with Rez rear. Couldn't be happier. If you lack knowledge on shock tunning or are more of a weekend warrior, you SHOULD be happy with the Rec series. Its a night and day difference and the handling of the quad is so much more manageable. Elka equips these shocks with SSD which lowers the ride height while allowing more wheel travel. A simple preload adjustment to get the correct ride height and you are ready to go. I am strictly an XC guy, and you quickly realize how huge a difference it is when hitting ruts and rocks, and the quad simply absorbs the punishment instead of bucking and jumping all over the place. You can't go wrong for the money.

Get them valved for your stock arms now, and whatever style (mx which is a harder valving, or xc which is a bit softer)(obviously weight) and when the time comes to upgrade to new arms, you can send them to C&D or whoever and have them revalved. Good luck.

Posted by: Flyin-Low

quote:
Originally posted by buster024
I definitely don't mind being wrong, but I'm curious where your info came from? I got mine from John at Elka. I really wanted to get Elka's, but couldn't afford new arms & new shocks at the same time. He assured me, that all I would need to buy was standard travel shocks, then send in for new springs once I purchased my wider arms. I would have to revalve if I went long travel ONLY.

I get my info. from wayyy tooo much time reading this stuff. You would need a different spring rate, but I couldn't see the spring being longer.. But I guess it could be?

Oh well, maybe we are both wrong

As for your situation Graphicdissorder, I would say find a cheap set of standard Elka fronts used from this site or ebay, reservoirs are great and having a bit of adjustment will help in the long run once you become more educated on shock tuning. As for the rear, you could find another or grab the one I have for sale.

Once you upgrade to +2 or so a-arms your going to have to send the shocks in one way or another.

-Martin

Posted by: buster024

quote:
You would need a different spring rate, but I couldn't see the spring being longer.. But I guess it could be?

I do apologize on the verbage earlier. The springs may not necessarily be longer, but they will be different (i.e. spring rate). Anyhow, I would probably agree that it would be wise to have the shocks revalved once you go to a + arm, however, according to Elka, it is not necessary for functionality. The performance could suffer, but they would work without sending them in right away.
Anyway....good post.

Posted by: 400exrider707

All elka would do is put a stiffer spring on. This is why they are considered sub par to other top brands these days. They really dont do any more valving, just add stiffer springs. Not a good way to do it.

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

quote:
Originally posted by 400exrider707
All elka would do is put a stiffer spring on. This is why they are considered sub par to other top brands these days. They really dont do any more valving, just add stiffer springs. Not a good way to do it.

And you would consider top brands to be?

I mean im open to other brands but it seems when I attend the track there are bike after bike sitting on elkas, they must no be that bad. ???

Posted by: Flyin-Low

They are deffinatly not a "bad" shock.. They are just poorly set up from factory for the serious racer, once purchased a lot of racers will send them into another shop (GTT, DeRisi, C&D... etc.) to be revalved and set up for OPTIMUM performance. Elka just sets them up for your general use.

For you, (and myself for that matter) the little bit of tweaking that needs to be done isn't going to hurt your riding.. All you will notice is the insane improvement from factory shocks

Posted by: 400exrider707

quote:
Originally posted by Flyin-Low
They are deffinatly not a "bad" shock.. They are just poorly set up from factory for the serious racer, once purchased a lot of racers will send them into another shop (GTT, DeRisi, C&D... etc.) to be revalved and set up for OPTIMUM performance. Elka just sets them up for your general use.

For you, (and myself for that matter) the little bit of tweaking that needs to be done isn't going to hurt your riding.. All you will notice is the insane improvement from factory shocks

Agreed.

One of my buddies who races expert this year and is still on stock shocks asks me frequently what he should do for suspension. I told him to do revalves and he keeps asking me if I think he should get elkas. I told him I wouldn't purchase new elkas if I was going to spend the money, and he replied well how come everyone in my class is running them....

I agree they are waaay better than stock, and I do believe ELKA to be the best selling guru out there. Their marketing skills are excellent. They sponsor big names, and their customer service is top notch. They are still a good company with a quality product, but for me to spend that kind of money, I think there are better options, that is all. If you come across a good deal on a set, dont hesitate to buy them, they are infinitely better than stockers.

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

I ended up with the Elka Tripple Rate With Piggy Backs, +2 Housers, and im sending my rear shock to GT Thunder for revalving/respring/rear link.

Thanks everyone for the input/help. The bike should be doing a hell of a lot better now all around. Im excited.

Posted by: 450Rchaser

fox air floats w/ houser +2 standard travel a-arms. got it laid out right now.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/sdime20s/from.jpg

Posted by: 1965 honda

quote:
Originally posted by GraphicDisorder
I have a 02 400ex. Mods listed below. Ive began to ride at tracks again, and the suspension is just bunk stock, rough ride, bottoming out, ect. So its time to upgrade. I wanna do this right but with the thought in mind im not actually racing the bike, I still ride some trails, and hill climb.

So what would you all suggest? Seems all the bikes that run at tracks almost all of them are on Elkas...see some works and few axis. Im not agaist spending that money but only if thats what I need. Few questions?

I have a +2 rear, so I assume it would be best to also upgrade a-arms to +2 or are the stock arms ok for what im doing? Should I be looking at long travel? Are the Elka recreational series enough or should I be looking at them with the resivors?

I am a big guy so my factory shocks just suck.

Thanks in advance for any input.

i run works triple rate with rezzys but i got the stronger ones. mine are rated for 200lbs and higher im 220 and i ve never had a problem . i do alot trail riding and hill climbs also.

Posted by: GraphicDisorder

New Parts in action.... wow what a difference.

http://www.graphicdisorder.com/shelly/rc1.jpg

http://www.graphicdisorder.com/shelly/rc2.jpg

http://www.graphicdisorder.com/shelly/rc3.jpg

http://www.graphicdisorder.com/shelly/rc4.jpg

http://www.graphicdisorder.com/shelly/rc5.jpg

http://www.graphicdisorder.com/shelly/rc6.jpg

http://www.graphicdisorder.com/shelly/rc7.jpg