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Uh-oh.... looks like I'm....
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Posted by: garandman

....going to a 416.

Called the fine folks @ C&D Racing, to order a hotcam and high comp piston, and they recommended the 416 overbore.

Hadn't planned on that.

Tell me about your 416's and what kind of power increases you got and anything else I should know.

Thx.

Posted by: Chin_Chilla

416's have the best reliability as far as the 400EX big bores. If built right, they can hang with the 440's and even the 450R's. What cam are you getting, what brand and compression piston? I think the 11:1 is the highest you can go without having to run race gas...so keep that in mind. I really didn't give it too much thought but now I'm kinda kickin myself in the rear for getting 12.5:1, I have to run VP-C12 because of deto. issues, and its like $7.75 a gallon. Also it may be time to upgrade to a full system if you only have a slip on. What do you plan on doing with it, aggessive trails, drags, racing, etc ?

Posted by: garandman

Chin -

Good questions.

I ride mostly trails. When I can, I like to do a little MX.

I went with a Stage 2 hotcam, and a 10.5:1 piston. It'll still run pump gas.

The guy at C&D said they build all their woods bikes with a Stage 2.

He also said (as you did) a full system might also be a good idea.

On his recommendation, I'm gonna start with a 42 pilot and a 170 main.

Posted by: vett_09

When I went to the 416 with the mods listed in my signature, it didn't even feel like the same bike. I do a lot of hill climbing, and the biggest thing that stuck out to me was the difference in power I still had when nearing the top of the hill. I was drag racing everything up the hill last time I was up north and the only thing beating me was a 700 Raptor with paddles.

Posted by: blown331

how much relatively do the motor components weigh so I can get an idea of shipping cost? Or should I just buy a complete built motor from someone and have it shipped?

I'd like to keep my stock motor and just get a completely new unit. After all the reading ive done i think i'll go with 416/426 kit one of the two.

Any suggestions? If companies do sell complete bottom ends assembled what price range am I looking?

Posted by: Chin_Chilla

quote:
Originally posted by garandman
Chin -

Good questions.

I ride mostly trails. When I can, I like to do a little MX.

I went with a Stage 2 hotcam, and a 10.5:1 piston. It'll still run pump gas.

The guy at C&D said they build all their woods bikes with a Stage 2.

He also said (as you did) a full system might also be a good idea.

On his recommendation, I'm gonna start with a 42 pilot and a 170 main.

1 thing you need to keep in mind is, let your motor breathe. I would look into a 450R carb, and if money is no issue then an FCR. Now your motor will really be breathing and with the full exhaust really be letting it out quickly. Also check out your valves, valve seals, and springs, along with cam chain for weakness. Those may need upgrade too.

Posted by: Chin_Chilla

quote:
Originally posted by blown331
how much relatively do the motor components weigh so I can get an idea of shipping cost? Or should I just buy a complete built motor from someone and have it shipped?

I'd like to keep my stock motor and just get a completely new unit. After all the reading ive done i think i'll go with 416/426 kit one of the two.

Any suggestions? If companies do sell complete bottom ends assembled what price range am I looking?

Shipping probably won't be much more than $12 for the cam and piston. It would be WAY cheaper to just mod. the motor youself for about $300 compared to a motor with a 416 or 426 that can range from $650-$900.

The 416, like I mentioned above, has the best reliability of all the big bores for the 400EX.

Also big bore kits are for your top end, not the bottom. Top end means the top portion of the motor, ie. head, valve cover, intake are, and bottom end means bottom portion of the motor, ie cases, crankshaft area.

Posted by: blown331

ok, what i meant then was... the entire crankcase + trans + crank/rod/piston etc.

Essentially the whole motor less the head which i'll be porting..

also... any machine shop should be able to just bore out my existing case if i went that route and install the piston etc myself? Im assuming thats a much cheaper option

Posted by: vett_09

I did mine by myself except for the bore and I had the valves re-seated. With the piston kit, gasket kit, bore, and valve work done I paid just under $350. I took it to my local shop and they sent it out to get bored.

Posted by: Joe400ex

I was wondering what is the dif between a 10:5 to a 11:1 comp piston. Is there a big power dif from the 2

Posted by: dirtmomma

I have a 426 in mine & LOVE IT & as for reliability it's been GREAT!! NO probs what so ever, I think we have about $150 maybe into mine!! Everything else is stock, we did replace the cam chain & guides but that's it. I do want to get a 450R carb(i'd steal it off the hubby's bike but I think he'd get upset LOL

) someday though just haven't looked for one yet

Posted by: exrider49

i have a 416 , stage 2 hotcam, it hauls.it stays with my neighbors 450 but the 450 has a lil more bottom end out of corners but i cant complain, i am rudding fmf porwebomb head pipe with hmf slip on, my slip on shortened 5 inches and man does it rumble and i fe;t more bottom end when i shortned the pipe..

Posted by: exrider49

and i beat the piss out of my quad and engine still pulls hard no ticking or nothing, i run vp-c12 with bel ray thumper oil and i change my oil every ride

Posted by: garandman

quote:
Originally posted by exrider49
i have a 416 , stage 2 hotcam, it hauls.it stays with my neighbors 450 but the 450 has a lil more bottom end out of corners but i cant complain, i am rudding fmf porwebomb head pipe with hmf slip on, my slip on shortened 5 inches and man does it rumble and i fe;t more bottom end when i shortned the pipe..

I was thinking if bottom end does suffer, I'd go to a smaller front sprocket.

Anyone tried this?

Posted by: AbnMP13

Doesn't the stage one give more bottom end power?

Wouldn't that be better than a stage two and changing the sprocket?

Don't yell at me, I'm just asking.

Posted by: garandman

quote:
Originally posted by AbnMP13
Doesn't the stage one give more bottom end power?

Wouldn't that be better than a stage two and changing the sprocket?

Don't yell at me, I'm just asking.

The site sponsors, C&D, told me 99% of all the XC quads they build have a stage 2.

They tell me with the hi comp piston, you'll gain bottom end, then the stage 2 gives you mid-range and top end.

I don't yell alot, do I????

Posted by: AbnMP13

Nah, not really. I just read several times on here that the stage 1 is bottom end and was wondering the thought process was behind those particular mods.

I figured it was a stupid question.

Posted by: garandman

quote:
Originally posted by AbnMP13
Nah, not really. I just read several times on here that the stage 1 is bottom end and was wondering the thought process was behind those particular mods.

I figured it was a stupid question.

I'm still waffling back and forth between stage 1 and 2.

Too much bottom end will turn the EX into a wheelie machine, looping out too much.

Its already easy enuf to get teh front end up, and the hi comp psiton will add to that.

Then if I decide I want more bottom end, I can just go one tooth down on the front sproket.

That was my thinking anyway.

Not a dumb question at all. I don't think there really is a right or wrong cam.

Just a better and a best cam.

Posted by: AbnMP13

LOL, go ahead and get the stage two, I am hoping to add a hi comp piston and (was planning) on a stage one this summer, I seldom if ever hit top speed, I ride mostly on the trails and occasional track. That was you can test the theory between the stage one and two for me!

Posted by: anderson3064

i have been thinking on the 416 myself, i dont get alot of time to ride but when i do its always trails. is the 416 relialble. some have stated that i would need a full system instead of s/o. i read on here that the 400ex header was a very good flowing pipe and not much diff than aftermarket

Posted by: garandman

quote:
Originally posted by anderson3064
i have been thinking on the 416 myself, i dont get alot of time to ride but when i do its always trails. is the 416 relialble. some have stated that i would need a full system instead of s/o. i read on here that the 400ex header was a very good flowing pipe and not much diff than aftermarket

C&D told me they are very reliable - just do your maint. Oil, oil filter, air filter.

They told me the stock header was good enuf and a slip on would work fine.

Posted by: Air Head

I have a guy that rides our local track and he has a 440EX and all he has is a Slip On... Runs like a champ
So you don't need a full system...

***********

Posted by: 1fst400

I have a 400ex lrd head pipe sitting in the corner of my garage. Im using the exhasut can or scilencer part of it. But the head pipe is useless to me with my current set up..

make an offer if your interested.

Posted by: blasterandy

Sounds cool garandman. I wanna see that thing run once ur done with it. Do you ever go to tnt i just went on saturday and rode the atv track for the first time...cool. That is awsome man , i bet it will pull you over all those jumps with ease.I would go with 426 cr cam chain hd studs and 10:5.1 or 11:1.

Posted by: dariusld

quote:
Originally posted by garandman
I was thinking if bottom end does suffer, I'd go to a smaller front sprocket.

Anyone tried this?

My 416 revs out to fast for 14 sprocket, you'll be in fourth gear before you blink an eye.

Posted by: mic 902

I got a 416 with 11:1 wiseco piston, flowed head and i run a stage 1 cam. Dont have a problem with wheel standing it just spins the wheels.

And i run a shorter swinger. It runs 15 36 gearing and pulls it soooooo easily. Just doesnt make much power up top but still doesnt have a problem revving all day. Keeps up with lightly modded 450's and is reliable as ever.
Hope that helps

Posted by: garandman

quote:
Originally posted by blasterandy
Sounds cool garandman. I wanna see that thing run once ur done with it. Do you ever go to tnt i just went on saturday and rode the atv track for the first time...cool. That is awsome man , i bet it will pull you over all those jumps with ease.I would go with 426 cr cam chain hd studs and 10:5.1 or 11:1.

I went to TNT once just to check it out.

It was before they put in the ATV track.

What convinced me to get the cam / 416 was the uphill table top at Brushy Mtn. I had to wail on it to clear the table top (and it was fairly small one)

Posted by: garandman

quote:
Originally posted by mic 902
I got a 416 with 11:1 wiseco piston, flowed head and i run a stage 1 cam. Dont have a problem with wheel standing it just spins the wheels. And i run a shorter swinger. It runs 15 36 gearing and pulls it soooooo easily. Just doesnt make much power up top but still doesnt have a problem revving all day. Keeps up with lightly modded 450's and is reliable as ever.
Hope that helps

It does - thanx!

Posted by: bayou boy

if you have the extra cash the c&d head port is pretty nice too. the stage 2 cam with the high comp piston will still have plenty of low end. if you can do the carb too. if you cant swing the carb put a 42 pilot and remove the choke from the stocker. every lil bit helps

Posted by: F-16Guy

A couple things I'd do, knowing what I know now:
Don't mess around; send your cylinder to GT Thunder and have the HD head studs installed. Eventually you'll have head gasket troubles, and for $100, you won't regret it. Their turn-around time is pretty quick. Secondly, go with the stage 2 cam. The 400ex is a tractor, and with a higher CR piston, you'll have all the bottom end you'll need (definitely more than stock). If you have the resources, a top end cooler is a very good idea. Use Perma-Cool P/N 1008, Universal ATV Cooler Kit. You may want to have it installed by someone that has done one before. It can be done yourself, but it's kind of a delicate procedure. Even with a stock carb and a slip-on exhaust, it is a world of difference. Don't forget to re-jet BEFORE you fire it up for the first time. You'll need to keep a light load on the engine and the revs above about 2000 RPMs to break in the cam (an easy 20 minute ride, shifting frequently). During break in, having the jetting a little rich is much better than having it lean.

Posted by: mic 902

quote:
Originally posted by mic 902
I got a 416 with 11:1 wiseco piston, flowed head and i run a stage 1 cam. Dont have a problem with wheel standing it just spins the wheels. And i run a shorter swinger. It runs 15 36 gearing and pulls it soooooo easily. Just doesnt make much power up top but still doesnt have a problem revving all day. Keeps up with lightly modded 450's and is reliable as ever.
Hope that helps

Just thought id add that i run a full CT Racing system with the choke removed from the carb. The main reason I went with the stage 1 was because the tracks I will be racing on are not very open.

Posted by: garandman

quote:
Originally posted by bayou boy
if you have the extra cash the c&d head port is pretty nice too. the stage 2 cam with the high comp piston will still have plenty of low end. if you can do the carb too. if you cant swing the carb put a 42 pilot and remove the choke from the stocker. every lil bit helps

Please tell me more about removing the choke.

Posted by: underpowered

quote:
Originally posted by Chin_Chilla

The 416, like I mentioned above, has the best reliability of all the big bores for the 400EX.
.

well i dissagree there. any big bore is reliable if built right. My 426 was prblem free for nearly 3 years. teh 416 is not neccesarily the most reliable, as other big bores are jsut as reliable.

Posted by: johnsls

quote:
Originally posted by garandman
I was thinking if bottom end does suffer, I'd go to a smaller front sprocket.

Anyone tried this?

I have the 426 and I dropped a tooth in the front, HATE IT
mine has way too much power to go that low in the front.. I used to be able to ride trails in 2nd or 3rd,, now its 3rd and just not right.. rpms are always up.
Keep the front stock..

Posted by: garandman

quote:
Originally posted by johnsls
I have the 426 and I dropped a tooth in the front, HATE IT
mine has way too much power to go that low in the front.. I used to be able to ride trails in 2nd or 3rd,, now its 3rd and just not right.. rpms are always up.
Keep the front stock..

Thanx! for the heads up

Posted by: 400eXr1d3rZ

quote:
Originally posted by garandman
Thanx! for the heads up

I dropped a tooth on my front sprocket while my quad (motor wise) was still stock, I noticed a great deal of torque, now that I have a 10.8:1 piston (416) and a stg 2 cam AND the 14t sprocket the torque is still the same, actually it doesn't have as much torque.

It won't be a torque monster, but it will gain a noticable amount. I say go for it.

Posted by: bayou boy

look in the tech articles section they have a complete how to on choke removal....very easy to do. i have done a few of them. why not do it while the carb is off may take 1/2 hr at the most including a beer break. i did this on mine before i got an fcr it helps the throttle response as far as added power im sure it helps a little i did mine when i had the top end down for the 416 rebirth so i cannot say how big a difference. it starts very easy with the 42 pilot also. just blip the throttle a couple of times then hit the starter button. also what the guy said about the heavy studs....i would do it. i know 3 people that have done this build (416) me included and the other 2 are cronic gasket blowers. one of the guys had the studs done no problems since. in the 2 years i have on my build i have only blown 1 head gasket which was about a month ago. so mine has been the most reliable. but soon i am going to freshen the top end and the studs are on the list. i have heard many theories on why they blow from overheating to when they bore the cylinder they remove the studs and sometimes when they reinstall them they do not hold as well. the guy that bored mine told me before he bored it there was a risk of this happening. not trying to scare you just letting you know it does happen. do not let this discourage you from doing it. it is very well worth it.