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Oil inside airbox
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Posted by: scuzz

OK guys & Gal, I just bought a 2001 Honda 400ex and went riding today and had a pain in the butt (box) issues.

As I rode the aibox filled with crankcase oil unbtil the intake would suck it up into the engine and then burn it out the exaust.

Any idea what would cause this? I ended up going through 3 quarts of oil just to ride today. This consisted of draining the airbox dran plug of oil SEVERAL times. I evevn removed the foam air cleaner thinking it was a dirty air cleaner...it still filled the airbox with oil.

I'll buy you a coke if you help me out.

Thanks guys!

(PS I DID DO A SEARCH)

CLIFFS:

A LOT of oil in airbox. Even without foam filter i.e, the wire mesh one. went through three quarts...very frstrated.

Posted by: scuzz

bump.

Posted by: JOEX

How are you checking the oil level? I know it sounds very basic but there are some specifics involved that some people don't know yet.

Make sure the motor is warm.
Let it idle for several minutes (very imoprtant).
Let it rest for a few minutes (also very important).
Remove the dipstick, wipe it off
Insert dip stick but DO NOT screw it in
Remove dip stick and view oil level.

Posted by: scuzz

We're not talking a little bit of oil, were talking a quart or more inside of the airbox.

I do know the poceedures for checking the oil though.

I found this on another ATV site and I think it may apply. I think the PCV valve in the valve cover is blocked or is not functioning. I'm going to look into that and see if that is it and post my findings.

Here's the thread link:

http://forums.atvconnection.com/mes...adid/336100.cfm

Posted by: scuzz

Anyone know what the compression is supposed to be so that I can check the rings?

Posted by: TravEX

bump, I gotta hear the answer to this one!

Posted by: GPracer2500

There is no PCV valve on a 400ex--there is only a line that vents the crankcase into the airbox. There's nothing in that thread that would help explain or fix your problem.

To have enough blow-by to push 3 quarts of oil out of the breather I would think the rings would be so shot the engine would smoke noticably and run pretty soft/bad. Does it?

Your sure it's not simply being overfilled?

I'm guessing a healthy stock piston will be 140psi or 150psi but I've never found good data on that question so I don't know for sure.

Posted by: TravEX

I bet the fresh oil is too thin to see on the dipstick and you kept overfillinig it by mistake. Is it fresh oil in the airbox? Drain the motor of oil, and start over. 2 qts only.

Posted by: scuzz

The pressure is supposed to be 100 to 128 per the Honda manual.

Now as soon as I get my socket in the mail I'll take that plug out and check it.

Posted by: GPracer2500

quote:
Originally posted by scuzz
The pressure is supposed to be 100 to 128 per the Honda manual.

Now as soon as I get my socket in the mail I'll take that plug out and check it.

Is that in the Honda service manual somewhere? I couldn't find it.

Posted by: JOEX

quote:
Originally posted by GPracer2500
Is that in the Honda service manual somewhere? I couldn't find it.

The Clymer manual has the same numbers under 'tune-up specificatons' in the "quick reference data' section near the front of the book.

Also stated in the tables at the end of the 'lube/maint./tune-up' section.

Posted by: scuzz

OK...here's what I found...and most importantly....I read when I compression tested my motor. (5 minutes ago)

1) I removed everything outta my way and connected my brand new compression testor to the spark plug hole.

2) I connected my abttery charger to my batter to make sure the battery wasn't the achillies heel in my testing.

3) I put it in nuetral and turned it over...

The highest reading was 85 PSI.

I tried again. Still 85.

Waaaaay below what I had remebered the shop manual said it was supposed to be. (100 - 128)

Broken hearted, I turned off my shop fan, grabbed my newly purchased shop manual and went upstairs thinking a rebuild was in mind and was fully ready to effectivly swip my card on the Interweb for parts.

Then I turned to section 7-3....and I quote:

"Shift the transmission in nuetral and open the choke lever. (OFF)
Open the throttle all the way and crank the engine with the starter motor until the guage stops rising. The maximum reading is usually reached within 4-7 seconds."

I looked at the guage and it read 125 PSI!!!!!!!!!

I immediatly thanked God.

I really wasn't looking forward to having to rebuild the top end after having only owned it for three weeks or so.

So, kiddo's, today we learned a valuable lesson:

Read your manual for everything.

Posted by: scuzz

Bump for edit and new info.

Posted by: johnsls

Well that doesn't solve your problem with getting all the oil in the air box now does it?
Whats up? I'm really curious why your getting so much oil in your box.
To me it seems like your rings are not installed properly. I think you said you just bought it right? Did the previous owner put new rings in or a new piston.. if so maybe they put the rings in wrong.

If rings are installed with all the slots lined up from what I understand youll have oil issues.

Anyone,,,

Posted by: scuzz

Well, I just took it for a 11 minute ride. (I live in a large apartment community...test drives are difficult)

Let's back up though before I go there.

I think what brought me here was a series of mistakes on my part....

I never changed the air filter when I got it so it could have been all poop-ed up when I got it and started the whole series of events. So here it is as they occured.

buy 4-wheeler > changed oil and filter in 4-wheeler (followed some instructions I found on the web) > went riding > white smoke come out of the tail pipe > putt-putt back >remove air box cover to find the box full of oil > put more oil in > more smoke and oil > put more oil in and removed foam on filter leving only wire mesh filter> more smoke and oil ? went home

> made a long hose to handlebar with a PCV valve on the end so I could watch the flow of oil coming out> topped of tank with oil > went riding the next day with new set up > oil blew all over my left leg where the PCV valve was > went home

> pulled all my 'rigging off and put on a new air filter> drained oil and filled again making sure that I hads enough, but not too much > double checked filter orientation > pressure checked the cylinder with 125 psi > test drove .....and NO OIL.

So, I think a dirty filter cause this whole chain of ignorant mistakes on my part. (in other words, I think after the initial incedent I put too much oil in it.

I'm about to go check it one more time and test ride it.

Pray for me.

Posted by: TravEX

quote:
Originally posted by TravEX
I bet the fresh oil is too thin to see on the dipstick and you kept overfillinig it by mistake. Is it fresh oil in the airbox? Drain the motor of oil, and start over. 2 qts only.

Dang right you put too much oil it. The air filter was not the problem at all, it would just run rich when the air filter is really dirty.

Posted by: scuzz

Yeah, you have no idea how much this has worried me...and for it all to be my fault...what an idiot am I...

Posted by: scuzz

Oh yeah, thanks for your help!

Posted by: johnsls

Your not an idiot. We all learn by our mistakes. Somewhere along the line we have all been there or might be there soon.

Good post cuz it really had us all thinking.

Good luck!

Posted by: scuzz

Thanks!

Now any of you guys wanna go riding with a guy from North Texas?

(just don't ask him for advice on how to fix your quad)

Posted by: scuzz

It's still happening.

I'm so frustrated.

Anyone reccomend a place to bring it to in the Dallas area?

Posted by: scuzz

I've had enough so I've invented my own oil/air separator.

I want to know what you guys think.

I understand it doesn't fix the problem, I'll get that fixed and post when I get the money. Anyway, here is my "invention"

I took it for a short ride and it worked great.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j...-NATORsmall.jpg

Posted by: GPracer2500

If it works, it works. Although, I'm a little reluctant to endorse a "patch" for a problem rather than finding out what's really going on. On the other hand, if a solution is not forthcoming than your resourceful Scuzz-O-Nator is better than loosing all the oil into the airbox.

Posted by: scuzz

I completely agree with you, but it looks like this problem can only be resolved with money being throw at it and the local Honda shop.

I promise to post my findings and let you all know.

Thanks guys.

Posted by: 250r4life

dude... im still confused about what the heck is going on with your bike... but i will tell you one thing, i would not be riding that bike with oil pumping out if i was you... sounds like a good way to blow it up...

like people have said, we live from our experiences... and one thing ive learned, is if your bike aint running right, you dont just ride it and hope for the best... you fix whatever is broken...

Posted by: scuzz

I hear you. I'll fix it via the Honda Shop when I get the money. I just aint got it right now. Besides, it's not like I'll be running it low on oil or running the oil out of it because I'll still be saparating it. I have great head pressure and no blow by...

Posted by: TravEX

Yes or no.

1. Is the oil in that is coming out fresh oil? ( You said you just changed the oil.)

2. Is the oil level in the oil tank going down?

3. How many spark plugs have you fouled so far.

It is so hard to keep up with you and your stories. Please answer yes or no to each so maybe we can stop chasing rabbits.

Thanks

Travis

Posted by: scuzz

quote:
Originally posted by TravEX
Yes or no.

1. Is the oil in that is coming out fresh oil? ( You said you just changed the oil.)

2. Is the oil level in the oil tank going down?

3. How many spark plugs have you fouled so far.

It is so hard to keep up with you and your stories. Please answer yes or no to each so maybe we can stop chasing rabbits.

Thanks

Travis

1) Yes.

2) No, not now that I put in the air/oil separator, the oil goes back into the tank.

3)ZERO.

Posted by: Flyin-Low

Maybe one of the oil strainers inside the engine are blocked, therefore creating too much pressure on the oil and making it blow out the breather?

-Martin

Posted by: scuzz

quote:
Originally posted by Flyin-Low
Maybe one of the oil strainers inside the engine are blocked, therefore creating too much pressure on the oil and making it blow out the breather?

-Martin

I hope it's something simple like that. I mean what else can it be? It'n not like this 4-stroke is some sort of a modern marvel.

Trust me, as tired are you guys are of reading this...I'n tired of living and writing it.

Posted by: Flyin-Low

LOL, a blocked strainer in the engine ISNT a simple thing. I suggest fixing the problem and NOT riding it anymore. I recently saw a yz250F engine at my mechanics that had the screen blocked in the engine by gunk and the whole engine seized from no oil.

So... in other words, dont ride that bad boy anymore and fix the problem.

-Martin