[>>>>>chatsworth<<<<<] - ATV Riders Forums - Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Polaris, CanAm, Arctic Cat, Kymco ATVsPages:1 2 3 4 5 6
>>>>>chatsworth<<<<<
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)
Posted by: Keystone_Rider
Warriorxcr1, thanks for letting me know there was pics on the previous page. I didn't know they were there. I didn't feel like going over 77 pages to find information about chattsworth. Nice place for mx, kinda reminds me of breezewood proving grounds.
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by Keystone_Rider
Warriorxcr1, thanks for letting me know there was pics on the previous page. I didn't know they were there. I didn't feel like going over 77 pages to find information about chattsworth. Nice place for mx, kinda reminds me of breezewood proving grounds.
there is come video on here too, I will just re-post in a little bit.
Posted by: A&S Banshee 00
I'm wondering if anyone here is going riding @ Chatsworth this coming Sunday 8-10-08. If so let me know because i'll be there with a couple of friends riding the atv track. I'll be driving White 4-door Ford Explorer with Pa Tags pulling a small trailer and a 2005 MX built all black honda 450r with the #28 on the number plates.
Posted by: warriorxcr1
if i can find tie rods in 2 days ill be there haha
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by warriorxcr1
if i can find tie rods in 2 days ill be there haha
ever find them rods Ant?
Posted by: warriorxcr1
yea man.. wheels are now straight haha.
Posted by: YELLOW RR
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/loc...rs_stalled.html
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by YELLOW RR
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/loc...rs_stalled.html
Good looking out.. I cant beleive they are finaly going to shut this place down, I am really going to miss it..
FROM THE ARTICLE
In the meantime, Collingswood Police Chief Thomas Garrity said that many riders who would prefer to be legal will simply keep riding.
"I won't do it because of my job and it's just too dangerous," he said. "But they're going to be turning a lot of riders into criminals." *
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
okay, anyone down for one last ride? I will be there sunday or monday to say goodbye to one of my favorite places to ride. Might even shed a tear, just kidding, just ripping this weekend, any one feel free to join me, just look for my yfz and a dropped money green chevy s10, or a bright orange chevy avalanche with hood scoops.
come on out..
Posted by: A&S Banshee 00
Hey Crazy lil punk, Sunday is there last day! I'm going to be at Chatsworth this coming Sunday 8-31-08 for the last ride there. If anyone going let me know because i'll be there with a couple of friends riding the atv track. I'll be driving White 4-door Ford Explorer with Pa Tags pulling a small trailer and a 2005 MX built all black honda 450r with the #28 on the number plates.
Posted by: A&S Banshee 00
I got this from the Burlington County Times. Here's the link below
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/n...08-1581177.html
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by A&S Banshee 00
Hey Crazy lil punk, Sunday is there last day! I'm going to be at Chatsworth this coming Sunday 8-31-08 for the last ride there. If anyone going let me know because i'll be there with a couple of friends riding the atv track. I'll be driving White 4-door Ford Explorer with Pa Tags pulling a small trailer and a 2005 MX built all black honda 450r with the #28 on the number plates.
Okay, i'll see ya sunday, just look for my quad and my truck (above) #215 on the yfz.
Posted by: warriorxcr1
im going sunday....
white 450r...has 829 plates on it right now
Posted by: 04yfz450nj
I cant believe they are closing this is where I started to ride.
Posted by: warriorxcr1
yea man....helped a lot of us out and thats why ill be there sunday
Posted by: 04yfz450nj
I remember me an my best friend use to get kicked of the intermidet track for sliding around the berm that they use to have that flag guy was a pain.
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by warriorxcr1
yea man....helped a lot of us out and thats why ill be there sunday
I was going to give you a ring to see if you were going, but I figured you would be dropping in here sooner or later.
quote:
Originally posted by 04yfz450nj
I remember me an my best friend use to get kicked of the intermidet track for sliding around the berm that they use to have that flag guy was a pain.
The old guys kicks me out everytime, he called me an ******* and said to never come back, lol, I love this place, I am really going to miss it.
Posted by: warriorxcr1
hahahahha... same stuff happened to me.. fricken guy hates us lol
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by warriorxcr1
hahahahha... same stuff happened to me.. fricken guy hates us lol
what time are you going sunday?
Posted by: warriorxcr1
i will most likely be out there for the gate opening joe.... i like to hit a fresh track and get in before everyone
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by warriorxcr1
i will most likely be out there for the gate opening joe.... i like to hit a fresh track and get in before everyone
True, I here you, are you staying all day? I was thinking about staying till they turn the lights out, just because.
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by A&S Banshee 00
Hey Crazy lil punk, Sunday is there last day! I'm going to be at Chatsworth this coming Sunday 8-31-08 for the last ride there. If anyone going let me know because i'll be there with a couple of friends riding the atv track. I'll be driving White 4-door Ford Explorer with Pa Tags pulling a small trailer and a 2005 MX built all black honda 450r with the #28 on the number plates.
Any idea what time you are going to head out on sunday?
Posted by: warriorxcr1
ill be there until my hands bleed haha
Posted by: A&S Banshee 00
I'll be out there around 9:30-10:30 am I have a bachelor party to attend on Saturday night. I'll be there till closing. I hope to meet everyone thats going.
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by A&S Banshee 00
I'll be out there around 9:30-10:30 am I have a bachelor party to attend on Saturday night. I'll be there till closing. I hope to meet everyone thats going.
Okay, awesome, I will probally be getting there around the same time, cya's on sunday!
Posted by: warriorxcr1
whos bringin the camera?!!! lol
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by warriorxcr1
whos bringin the camera?!!! lol
i will try to remeber mine
Posted by: warriorxcr1
pig roast was popin man!!! hahahaha
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
anyone riding any where?
Posted by: A&S Banshee 00
Hey Joe, I haven't been out riding sense the last day of Chatsworth. By the way did you get your yfz running yet ? Did you clean that air filter yet
. How about you Anthony Have you been out riding?
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by A&S Banshee 00
Hey Joe, I haven't been out riding sense the last day of Chatsworth. By the way did you get your yfz running yet ? Did you clean that air filter yet
. How about you Anthony Have you been out riding?
I brought it home, pulled the air filter, cleaned it, pulled the oil filter, cleaned it, pulled the jets, cleaned them, and it starts fine, but still wont idle right, I will just keep playing with it till i get it right, I beleive its a fuel problem since it happened after i ran out of gas and all.
Posted by: sunco
Octoberfest @ Breezewood. I see they made some changes to the tracks. If ya can go ,I"m sure you'd have a blast.
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by sunco
Octoberfest @ Breezewood. I see they made some changes to the tracks. If ya can go ,I"m sure you'd have a blast.
I would have a blast if I could get to ride one afternoon on a normal weekend there, but I can't because of the drive/time/paperwork. Take pics, your son was really killing it on the 250ex in the vids from labor day weekend.
Posted by: sunco
Yeah. Me & my other son won the july 4th couch race. its all on you tube,
Posted by: warriorxcr1
that sucks joe....hope you get that bike running...i really like that yami.
gary- i have been riding locally the past two weeks.... if any of you guys are ever in the bayville, forked river/ lacey area give me a ring.
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
YFZ is at the mechanics house.
Anyone ever try Trevortown or hazelton? I might try going up there, i need a place that is either super close, or doesn't require any paper work everyday, so T-town is looking good right now.
Posted by: drchoicey
breezewood too far for you dude?
we've been riding there since they closed the park.its incredible,worth every minute on the interstate we think.
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by drchoicey
breezewood too far for you dude?
we've been riding there since they closed the park.its incredible,worth every minute on the interstate we think.
As long as there is no paper work, then yes, but I am 17 so I don't want to have to make one of my parents drive all that way to sign all the paper work. Anyone have info on the papers?
BTW-Anyone going to bluediamond?
Posted by: mhood121
i dont know if this has been covered, but what are they doing with chatsworth, like the land? is it just sitting there, i was only there once over the summer, and when we left i seen alot of trails around the place, looked pretty easy to get into if its just sitting there you know.....any thoughts?
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by mhood121
i dont know if this has been covered, but what are they doing with chatsworth, like the land? is it just sitting there, i was only there once over the summer, and when we left i seen alot of trails around the place, looked pretty easy to get into if its just sitting there you know.....any thoughts?
They are "letting it return to nature" More or less its just going to get trashed by keg parties, car fires, and riding, just like it was before NJORVP was there.
Posted by: outlawjeff
Just as a FYI i grew up in the chatsworth area. Yes it is closed and can't ride there anymore. I rode there before it was a atv park along with all the trails on both sides of rt 72 and off of rt 70 in the brendon t burne forrest and the greenwood conservation area. I will tell you now do not park near a main dirt road or blacktop road any place int he woods. The rangers and conservation officers are out hot and heavy anywhere near chatsworth and surrounding areas in the forrest. It doesnt matter if you are registered and insured they will still wright you tickets and try to take your bike or atv. They will try to chase you, and if they dont chase you you could be supprised when you get back to your truck and they will be waiting near your truck when you get back from your ride. I have been chased too many times to remember out there. I dont take a truck there i leave from friends houses. So just be really carefull if you go any place near chatsworth.
Posted by: deathman53
I aways ride in the state forest and greenwood. Never ran into a ranger. I don't ride my atv's there anyway, reg/ins/inpect dirtbikes. I've been stopped by rangers in colliers mill wma, couldn't get a ticket on me, unless they saw me in a "unapproved road", basically an "unapproved"road is a path where you can't fit a normal sized road vehicle. You have to be carefully in area's around there anyway, when you start getting into Forked River Mountain, there is signs for "no motor vehicles, unless offical use". I never liked that area too much, one minute you are on legal area, then you see a "no motor vehicle" sign and 1/2 mile later you seen a WMA sign, too confusing. To be on state lands and wma's it needs to be a vehicle that is legal to ride on the street. Atv's don't fit into that desciption. So, is njorvp not a private property now and public land like the rest of land out there?? I was back there a few weeks ago and there was lot of tire tracks, even though the park is shut down. It sure looked like alot of people were riding back there.
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by deathman53
I aways ride in the state forest and greenwood. Never ran into a ranger. I don't ride my atv's there anyway, reg/ins/inpect dirtbikes. I've been stopped by rangers in colliers mill wma, couldn't get a ticket on me, unless they saw me in a "unapproved road", basically an "unapproved"road is a path where you can't fit a normal sized road vehicle. You have to be carefully in area's around there anyway, when you start getting into Forked River Mountain, there is signs for "no motor vehicles, unless offical use". I never liked that area too much, one minute you are on legal area, then you see a "no motor vehicle" sign and 1/2 mile later you seen a WMA sign, too confusing. To be on state lands and wma's it needs to be a vehicle that is legal to ride on the street. Atv's don't fit into that desciption. So, is njorvp not a private property now and public land like the rest of land out there?? I was back there a few weeks ago and there was lot of tire tracks, even though the park is shut down. It sure looked like alot of people were riding back there.
Wait, if you have a registered and insured dirtbike you can ride all around on the state trails?
DO you ever ride your quads anymore man?
Posted by: deathman53
Not that often, when I ride my 3/4 wheeled atv's its on private "allowed" property, Atco, Rausch Creek and have ridden in maryland-Landing MX. I want to go to Blue Diamond and Walden also, I don't hear such great things about them. There is pretty slim riding for atv's around here, so they don't get ridden much.
Yes, a reg/ins/inpect dirtbike and a motorcycle license, you are legal to ride on state forests and wma's, there is rules regarding each. But its free and legal(for the most part) riding. The street legal status also makes it alot harder for them to impound you and usually results in less/cheaper fines if you are caught riding illegal. I do ride illegal, but my truck is never on land where I can get a trespassing ticket on, its usually on wma or other state lands.
Posted by: outlawjeff
i grew up int that area and have been riding there my entire life and i am 30 if you are on a 4 wheeler be prepared to get chased and possible cought, too many of my friends got snagged in the past year. The conservation officers and rangers are out even more now because they got a grant from the state to work overtime to catch us atv riders. They think that we are more of a criminal than the drug dealers, robbers, and so on. Just dont get cought on a atv in greenwood or brendon t burne forest. I know alot of forest fire warrdens as well they will tell you the same. Dirt bikes are ok as long as they are registered a dualsport bike. Just my 2 cents to try to keep everyone safe and their money in their pockets.
Posted by: drchoicey
the chatsworth thread can never die
Posted by: sunco
Its dead. Time to move on 
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by sunco
Its dead. Time to move on
No way man, this thread has been alot of fun, it can't die, we can use it to BS like we always have, plus chatts may be revived in another location, never give up.
ALSO-There is news for a track to open at NewEgypt Race Track, stay tunned for more info.
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
BTW-If anyone is going to BPG anytime soon, let me know. I just need to follow some one out, it would be cool to have some one to pal around with too.
Posted by: madmartin
There will be another chatsworth. Already in the works. Different location but the same type of park. Thats all i'm gonna say bout dat.
Posted by: brokenmike
Thats what I heard too.
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
More details would be great, like about how long it will take, where will it be? Will there be tracks? trails?
Posted by: deathman53
Aren't they trying to get the sand pit in Monroe twp.(south jersey)?, but having a big fight with the greens and locals? I would like to see another one, I thought the old one was kinda lame and boring to ride. They need to learn how and how often to groom the track, design jumps that don't send you 20' up and a flat landing below, not to concertrate the sprinklers on one spot and seperate the kids from the "advanced" hahaha track. I have found they don't follow a predictable route and love to go over the "big" jump, roost the hell out on the top, wear the lip down and then the faster rider goes over the jump and nearly has a heart attack when he/she sees the kid below.
Better yet, do like Atco does, ONLY run the kids/slower riders for so long, get them off and then the faster/advanced riders. It would be nice to see then learn from Atco, Raceway park, Rausch Creek, Landing Mx how to design a "real" advanced track and their current idea of an "advanced" track, that was more like a flat track with some jumps in it to the kids. I tryed many times to get a better track, it fell to deaf ears due to me being the only one who spoke up. I tryed a petition a few times, that went unsigned, nobody showed up at meetings, when the track got worse-nobody said anything, the nails were set in the coffin then. I stopped going there for a favor of tracks with doubles, triples, whoops, tight turns and well designed jumps. I tryed to get us on the mx track also, I was told no and for them to consider it, they would need a sizable amount of atv riders to petition for it.
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
Agreed. I was not able to go to meetings, but I wrote letters and mail them to the NJORVP staff.
Posted by: NJChris
NJ Motorsports park is making 3 tracks they say. MX,TT and a XC course Ive heard. http://www.njmotorsportspark.com/overview.html
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by NJChris
NJ Motorsports park is making 3 tracks they say. MX,TT and a XC course Ive heard. http://www.njmotorsportspark.com/overview.html
Yes, but again, time is an issue.
Posted by: madmartin
They did let that place go to hell. You were lucky if they groomed it once a month, which was starting to get a little dangerous. That nj motorsports park is a load of crap. When i looked at their original plans a year ago they called for 1 small 3/4 mile atv track to be built way at the bottom of their property. I don't know what their membership and dues are, but being that they cater to some wealthy race car drivers i bet they're pretty high.
I think we will see 1 if not a few new parks open relatively soon. I've heard of a few private land owners who are reallly interested in capitalizing on the need for off road parks in new jersey. It could be a good money maker for these owners if done right. I do know for a fact that it is being worked on. If it's private land and privately organized the tree huggers and politicians are gonna have a hard time stopping it. It might come down to having to organize a club to manage and run each individual park. Which might be a good thing to have riders who care run the facility.
Posted by: jrspawn
I wouldnt call the NJMP track a load of crap man. Its attitudes like this that will hurt places that ARE trying to opening new places to ride. ANY new place to ride is a good thing man, ANY. It blew my mind when the chattsworth announced that they were closing down and suddenly a ton of riders were upset over it. Keep in mind that most of the ones upset(except for maybe 3 that i know of) were people that constantly bashed the place. As riders and racers we need to support all and any tracks out there. Not complane and bash the place, that only adds fuel to the fire. Also i know most riders say they dont have any place to ride now in jersey, but i would say from any place in jersey there is someplace to legally ride within an hours drive or so. I might be wrong there, but it should be pretty close. I know alot of people have grown up and are used to riding illegally also. But that again is only hurting the situation, by ALOT. Thats all legal and public figures see. Is they offroad riders riding illegally anywhere they can.
You are off to a good start with trying to get a group of people together. Keep going strong with that idea and you should be able to get some more pull with help regarding more riding areas. Your still going to run into the same problems eventually with using private land unfortunetly also.
Non profit organization. Look into that, get some supporters and try.
Thank you
Justin
quote:
Originally posted by madmartin
They did let that place go to hell. You were lucky if they groomed it once a month, which was starting to get a little dangerous. That nj motorsports park is a load of crap. When i looked at their original plans a year ago they called for 1 small 3/4 mile atv track to be built way at the bottom of their property. I don't know what their membership and dues are, but being that they cater to some wealthy race car drivers i bet they're pretty high.
I think we will see 1 if not a few new parks open relatively soon. I've heard of a few private land owners who are reallly interested in capitalizing on the need for off road parks in new jersey. It could be a good money maker for these owners if done right. I do know for a fact that it is being worked on. If it's private land and privately organized the tree huggers and politicians are gonna have a hard time stopping it. It might come down to having to organize a club to manage and run each individual park. Which might be a good thing to have riders who care run the facility.
Posted by: madmartin
I loved chatsworth. It was set up with a good amount of activity for anybody to come down and enjoy the day. I think they just let alot slide during their last year of opperation. kinda created a dangerous riding situation some time.
The njmp is just not what the off road motorsports community needs. It's a private group who's intention is to make money. If they offer one very small track it will give us one very small track to ride on. It also gives the state a chance to say, look you can ride legally in this state we have fulfilled our resposibility. I don't know the details on the park but before they even broke ground the owners had spoke of club houses, celebrity cars racers, and membership fees that could be in the thousands. I just don't think it's an organization with intentions to help our sport progress in this state.
We are in the process of starting a club though. Intentions are to get recognized with the AMA and NJ. And hopefully help the push for a new Chatsworth. We all need a safe, organized and legal place to ride. Theres just to many people tearing up their neighbors yard, riding around in sandals without helmets.
Posted by: brokenmike
I agree with that 100% PM me if you wanna go riding sometime madmartin
Posted by: NJChris
I just posted that because it was a possible new NJ racetrack. I was interested in joining to run my Corvette there but yes they want like $15,000 to join and $3000 a year to stay a member(for the car tracks). I said no thanks!
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
bumppp. Been riding in the mountains. Went to Lost Trails, not bad, but way to many rocks.
Posted by: flyboy62
quote:
Originally posted by Crazy lil punk
BTW-If anyone is going to BPG anytime soon, let me know. I just need to follow some one out, it would be cool to have some one to pal around with too.
i will let you know next time we go down. mabey we could meet up there. breezewood is amazing.
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by flyboy62
i will let you know next time we go down. mabey we could meet up there. breezewood is amazing.
Thanks man, that would be sweet. Do you plan on going out sometime before Christmas? Or not till next season?
Posted by: flyboy62
there closing for the winter so not till next year
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
I just cant let this thread die....,
Posted by: YELLOW RR
quote:
Originally posted by Crazy lil punk
I just cant let this thread die....,
You ever go out to Beach street in philly, last time I was up there I parked up for a little bit to watch. Ill be back in philly in April, cant wait! I love track riding but street is cool once in a while,cant street ride like that down here in south florida.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftXq...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Put...re=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qkl...feature=related
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
Yeah, I dont go there, its a little too shady for me.
Posted by: sunco
I didn't see any big trees? 
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by sunco
I didn't see any big trees?
Was that a joke? haha. I mean, its not a place for me to go, that a differnt crowd down there.
Posted by: sunco
merry christmas all
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
bump, any news on a new track? I just sold my yfz...
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
now this is just..,,,Ohh God,,,,
How the **** is this good for the ****ing enviroment!! I want to cry!!!!!!!
LOOK WHAT THEY DID TO CHATTS!
http://s491.photobucket.com/albums/rr275/njorvp2009/
NOT MY PHOTOS
To the Photo owner(s)
Let me know if you want me to take these down, also feel free to throw your credit up here, I found these some where and how to share them.
Posted by: 04yfz450nj
that is a shame they did that dam they cut down alot of trees did u see the intermedite track an d bike track at all. I still cant believe they got rid of that place.
Posted by: outlawjeff
yes
You can thank our wonderful state. I live about 10 minutes from chatsworth and ride that area my entire life. the state game wardens and conservation officers in greenwood forrest and brendon t byrne forrest are all hate atv riders no matter what. One conservation offer told me and my buddys riding on private land said that "atv riders are the scum of new jersey". Do you Believe that? I guess drug dealers, the illegal dumping, poaching deer isnt as bad as us wanting to go out and have a good time and stay out of trouble riding with friends your kids etc. I dont get it and guess i never will. this state could make quite a bit of money if they opened the state land for riding and made us pay for a permit like they do down at hatfield mccoy in WV.
Just my opinon
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
quote:
Originally posted by outlawjeff
yes
You can thank our wonderful state. I live about 10 minutes from chatsworth and ride that area my entire life. the state game wardens and conservation officers in greenwood forrest and brendon t byrne forrest are all hate atv riders no matter what. One conservation offer told me and my buddys riding on private land said that "atv riders are the scum of new jersey". Do you Believe that? I guess drug dealers, the illegal dumping, poaching deer isnt as bad as us wanting to go out and have a good time and stay out of trouble riding with friends your kids etc. I dont get it and guess i never will. this state could make quite a bit of money if they opened the state land for riding and made us pay for a permit like they do down at hatfield mccoy in WV.
Just my opinon
I agree, completely.
I, being a teenager, have watched many of my friends fall victim to "drinkin and smokin" every weekend. But I didnt, I had a place to ride and friends to ride with. Now it is taken from me. You want to stop kids from doing stupid ****, give them a place to ride and play. If you can race on the track and trails, I am sure as hell kids would be less likely to race cars on the streets, its a win win. They make money off our quads, our registrations, taxes on all the parts we buy, and would make money off of our admission to ride.
Posted by: deathman53
what a bunch of hypocrites the Enviro-nazi's are!!!! They leveled the place, looks like they knocked down alot of trees and left huge dirt piles. They would have been better off leaving the place as it was and letting nature cover over it. Stuff was pretty smooth, little fallen trees and no messes. In a short time, the atv, intermediate and mx track would have covered over and erosion would eventually level it. I bet they did what they did to stop people from wanting to ride there. It looks like they didn't do a complete clean-up either, there are still the big tires and lots of fallen trees. Is this what they call, "letting nature renew itself"?????? It SURE looks they renewed it to a natural state!!!!!!!!
Posted by: sunco
Hard to believe what they did to the land is better than having the park.
Some people have clouded judgement.
I don't think that this is what anyone would think it would turn into.
For budget reasons I'd guess they didn't reforest - which is what both sides thought would happen.
This is a story for the papers to put out to the public and show them that this is a better land use.
Its not my land but I will say it seems to be offensive as to all that have used the park.
Nothing will ever be the same..................
Posted by: Crazy lil punk
I just cannot beleive this. I plan on walking the grounds myself sometime soon. I feel so attached to this place that it just makes me want to cry. I dont care how crappy the tracks were, it was a track. Ughh......
vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2003, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vB Easy Archive Final - Created by Xenon and modified/released by Adam J. de Jaray