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Hot header help fast
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Posted by: New450r

I need help I went from a 182 main jet to a 190 and my pipe still gets red hot it runs real good but am afraid it is getting to hot in trails I have home made outerwhare air box and a full factory 4 exaust. It dose not backfire or anything any help would be nice

Posted by: Curless #32

When the choke is on or when idling for a while mine does the same thing. On the dyno mine shows that it is fine. When we did my buddy's Raptor it did the same thing. I think that the stainless steel has something to do with it.

Posted by: chad502ex

both of you should bump up your slow jet (pilot) one size. That'll keep your idle and slow range from being extra lean. Lean conditions cause headers to get hot and glow. Not a good thing.

hope this helps.

chad502ex.com

Posted by: 911

all 450s do this (bikes and quads) not to worry

i did notice that after i turned out my air screw in front of the carb 1/2 TURN IT doesn't glow so bad

Posted by: chad502ex

quote:
Originally posted by 911
all 450s do this (bikes and quads) not to worry i did notice that after i turned out my air screw in front of the carb 1/2 TURN IT doesn't glow so bad

turn'n in air fuel screw in help'd, huh?

nevermind,....

all 450's do not do this and is not suppose too either. if you see glowing header- here's your sign

it's kewl!

Posted by: 330R PowerValve

I'll second that they all do that. I have two 450r's and one with a sparks pipe jetted with a 195 and a larger pilot. Also my buddy bought a new 450r this week and the pipe was glowing. Completely normal.

quote:
Originally posted by chad502ex

turn'n in air fuel screw in help'd, huh?

nevermind,....

all 450's do not do this and is not suppose too either. if you see glowing header- here's your sign

it's kewl!

Posted by: ProConcept

And ive seen tons of vids of race teams dynoing there F1 race car engines. Those headers looked like they were going to melt, you can't doubt that those motors are tuned perfectly and glowing headers are just going to happen.

Posted by: 400exredrider

just dont touch it and youll be alright

Posted by: Honda

Mine Glows also.

I thought it may be from running her lean, but if I put the factory air box cover on she won't rev out. It will do the same with the stock exhaust tip in the muffler also. This would indicate to me that it runs rich if any of the above is performed.

I also checked the plug and it is the proper light brown, medium gray color, depending on which fuel I am running.

Wierd, only quad I have ever noticed to do this, and I have owned many.

Posted by: glenfoto

i second, third, fourth, and fifth that motion......

mine glows too.... acts as a night light during Glamis and Gordon's Well evenings... muahaaaa

Posted by: shamisc

Mine don't glow!

Is mine ABnormal?

It didn't glow completely stock, and it don't glow with the HRC kit and Dr.D!

Posted by: JW450R1

i would bump up the slow jet like chad said.i had a hmf full exhaust.same thing.called hmf a they said that was ok,but i couldn't beleive that.i went 1 size bigger in slow jet,and i was good.and alos i little more power too.

Posted by: New450r

I am going up a size or 2 on the pilot to see what it dose

Posted by: chad502ex

quote:
Originally posted by New450r
I am going up a size or 2 on the pilot to see what it dose

one size should be enough

Posted by: 2004exrider

ITS COMPLETELY NORMAL. my 400 is jetted perfect (42 pilot also) and it will still glow a little bit.

Posted by: R3Concepts

quote:
Originally posted by 400exredrider
just dont touch it and youll be alright

By far the best answer.. My Sparks glows at the dunes when Im just crusing around, perfectly normal, any 4 stroke will boil and get hot if its not moving. But bigger pilot good also.

Posted by: chad502ex

i don't know how many times i have to say it is NOT NORMAL for a header to glow! If you want yours to continue to glow so be it, but a glowing header is a lean condition and lost of power.

hope this helps.

chad

Posted by: R3Concepts

And I dont know how many times I have to say, as the owner of a fab shop, that the stainless that they use for pipes is THIN and its going to glow when it gets hot.

Posted by: chad502ex

quote:
Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
And I dont know how many times I have to say, as the owner of a fab shop, that the stainless that they use for pipes is THIN and its going to glow when it gets hot.

ok so be it. you continue to run glowing and i'll use the dyno data saying that i'm dial in and not glowing. When you get 59rwhp let me know how hot your header is, ok? HONDAs new feature "NORMAL" glowing header LOL!

Posted by: Nate Dogg #76

I have a 450R with a Yoshimura TRS headpipe and silincer. The rest of the motor is stock including the air filter and jets. My headpipe absolutely does NOT glow! My friend is a certfied Honda mechanic, and he said my jets will be fine as long as I didn't change to a high flow airfilter or remove my lid. Yoshimura said the same thing when I called them.

Posted by: 400exredrider

every stock 450 exhaust i have seen,,, right out of the crate has glown in the night hours,,, they do run a bit hot, but its really not going to affect your performance much

Posted by: R3Concepts

quote:
Originally posted by chad502ex
ok so be it. you continue to run glowing and i'll use the dyno data saying that i'm dial in and not glowing. When you get 59rwhp let me know how hot your header is, ok? HONDAs new feature "NORMAL" glowing header LOL!

Everyone forgets your such a bad*****. And I think we will take your little challange, we are in the process of building an ESR 480 with the help of Kenz Cycle Tech in AZ, who has a shop bike, a 495 stroker, stock valve/sprung YFZ that put out 60 on his dyno, with HCs, so our Honda should be pretty close with his flow bench work. By the way is your 530 gonna be at the 4 Stroke Wars next year, since its soooo stout?

Posted by: 400exredrider

chads 530 is pretty bad a**,,,, but i wouldent like rebuilding it so often

Posted by: R3Concepts

No doubt, Ive seen it before, but its no 4 Stroke Wars bike.

Posted by: chad502ex

quote:
Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
Everyone forgets your such a bad*****. And I think we will take your little challange, we are in the process of building an ESR 480 with the help of Kenz Cycle Tech in AZ, who has a shop bike, a 495 stroker, stock valve/sprung YFZ that put out 60 on his dyno, with HCs, so our Honda should be pretty close with his flow bench work. By the way is your 530 gonna be at the 4 Stroke Wars next year, since its soooo stout?

bad*****?

. i'm pretty sure i'll be there

every secret isn't always told either. when you get over 65 let me know.

Posted by: force

mine glows too

Posted by: 330R PowerValve

The exhaust temp is over 1000 degrees. Stainless pipe will glow at about 500-600. 10 HP or 100 HP it will glow. 48 stock pilot or 78 pilot it will glow. Call TC racing, balwin or whoever and ask them.

Posted by: twisted threads

quote:
Originally posted by 330R PowerValve
The exhaust temp is over 1000 degrees. Stainless pipe will glow at about 500-600. 10 HP or 100 HP it will glow. 48 stock pilot or 78 pilot it will glow. Call TC racing, balwin or whoever and ask them.

I agree! I have a 190 main and a bigger pilot jet and my header still glows at night and the bike runs awsome.

Posted by: R3Concepts

how many times do i have to tell you guys that glowing headers is NOT normal!!! haha the masses have spoken chad

Posted by: MR.BIG

Mine has a glow to it at night to and mine runs perfect. Even if you change the pilot jet that is not going to change the pipe from getting red because pilot jet only controls idle to 1/4 throttle so if your riding at half throttle why would the pipe still be glowing?

Posted by: chad502ex

quote:
Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
how many times do i have to tell you guys that glowing headers is NOT normal!!! haha the masses have spoken chad

and you have a fab shop? haha!

ok- ok it's normal. maybe then all the dyno graphs you'll see with a/f is way off (not), and i should adjust my setup to the absolute stock lean condition cause well everybody thinks it's normal. maybe if i do that my power will skyrocket towards 70hp instead of 60. can anyone that has a glowing header produce any power producing dyno graphs?

whatever,...

Posted by: force

quote:
Originally posted by chad502ex
and you have a fab shop? haha!

ok- ok it's normal. maybe then all the dyno graphs you'll see with a/f is way off (not), and i should adjust my setup to the absolute stock lean condition cause well everybody thinks it's normal. maybe if i do that my power will skyrocket towards 70hp instead of 60. can anyone that has a glowing header produce any power producing dyno graphs?

whatever,...

nothing against you, chad.....but why do you try to answer every questions with dyno charts and graphs?

Posted by: chad502ex

quote:
Originally posted by force
nothing against you, chad.....but why do you try to answer every questions with dyno charts and graphs?

force, i use dyno charts and graphs as support to the answers to the questions. In other words, all I'm trying to say is that the dyno's contains data that can be used to understand these type of questions. If you strap a stock 450r to the dyno and measure a/f you'll undestand that the information i talk about is from extensive testing and not just hearsay. Everyone can believe what they want, I have no problem with that. It does not hurt my feelings in the least that ppl choose to ignore test results, that's their perogative. Some ppl get really heated when they see testing that discounts hearsay, and that's ok too. But there are ppl that are interested in seeing the data.

i think everyone agrees that HONDA sold a stock 450r off the showroom extremely lean. Com'on, the stock main is 118 and as a result the stock 450r runs superhot and has slight disavantage compared to a stock yfz. Think about it, what happens to ppl that install just a filter and their new jetting goes from 118 to 165 main. Isn't that proof enough that the stock machine is extremely lean? Isn't that proof enough that the kick starter kicks back through the right outer case because of lean condition? Ever thought of HONDA detuning a bit under yfz for a reason? Running a 400ex extremely lean and the result is that you end up replacing the sprag clutch every few months cause of the kickback through the crank due to detonation- same as kickback throught the 450r kickstarter

look, i'm not here to swell my head cause frankly i know nobody here except handful, but when i interject into threads yes it will be with information through doing things that few are and with test data as backup. All i prefer to do is tell what i have learned and it is up to others to believe or not. But really, I have learned tuns of info from others too!!

So that being said about all the dyno graphs and plots, stay tuned,.... i'm sure within a few weeks your perspective might change a bit about dyno information

hope this helps.
chad

Posted by: R3Concepts

What does my post have anything to do with me owning a fab shop? Anyway, all my point was is that the stainless steel that pipe makers use is very thin, thin wall material will show heat but will inturn heat up and cool off many many many times, with no ill affect. But I have to agree with the other post, that you seem to be about you all the time, some decent info, some not really, but thats why I mentioned the 4SW, youll find out if your 530 is as bad as you think it is, but I will say its not going to be an easy year in 06.

Posted by: chad502ex

who mentioned first about being an owner of fab shop? not me- i'm not selling anything here for money.

Isn't 4sw in Feb.? actually, it's funny u mention that,...
i'll be there and probally my 550RFI too!

Posted by: R3Concepts

I hope you got some dunes around there or at least a sand hill to test on, if not your gonna miss the setup by a mile...Also wasnt your bike runnin a stock swinger last time I saw a pic? Also with a 550 with fuel injection your going to have run 501+Open, since you have to be naturally aspirated in modified..last year the Kenz turbo Raptor took that class..But I imagine you and your bike will make a clean sweep.

Posted by: chad502ex

quote:
Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
I hope you got some dunes around there or at least a sand hill to test on, if not your gonna miss the setup by a mile...Also wasnt your bike runnin a stock swinger last time I saw a pic? Also with a 550 with fuel injection your going to have run 501+Open, since you have to be naturally aspirated in modified..last year the Kenz turbo Raptor took that class..But I imagine you and your bike will make a clean sweep.

you are really trying to poke me a little more, aren't you? What gives with you? a naturally aspirated 43mm tapered fcr turbo with bottle is made for 450r's too! These bolt-ons can easily be installed. your talking like a craptor can't be beat.

Quite honestly, my friend and I have just been talking about changing this years trip from Thankgiving Glamis weekend to 4SW next Feb. We are still working out details cause it's almost a year away. you may be right about a chance that the 550 not sweeping or even placing- who knows right now, but hopefully you'll line up with me so I can whip your smart arse!

BTW: is there any links you know of regarding the rules for 4SW?

Posted by: shamisc

quote:
Originally posted by shamisc
Mine don't glow! Is mine ABnormal?
It didn't glow completely stock, and it don't glow with the HRC kit and Dr.D!

This is so funny, mine didn't glow at all until I installed the CRF cam!

I guess I need to bump up the pilot!

Posted by: chad502ex

quote:
Originally posted by shamisc
This is so funny, mine didn't glow at all until I installed the CRF cam! I guess I need to bump up the pilot!

according to R3, that must mean your head pipe is thicker than everyone elses! LOL.

Posted by: R3Concepts

Chad,
Ill line our little 480 up against your bike, I got nothing to prove. Ill im saying is that the 4 SW are a lot tougher then you think..And i highly doubt youd beat that raptor. Kenz Cycle knows his sh*t. If your bike doesnt have a swingarm thats at least +8 its going to wheelie, if you wheelie at the 4SW, youre done, just got beat. Also your bike has the to get through the whoops well. Thought about a tire selection yet? Atvfanatics.com is the officail site of 4SW. Go to the official results page under 4SW:4 and theres a bunch of finals videos.

Posted by: 86atc250r

Never mind Chad - in his world he knows it all. After all, he did help with the 400ex that develops 70 Harley humbling ft/lbs of torque at 3200 RPM - can't argue with that.....

And yes, a glowing header is normal for a thin, stainless pipe like what the 450R's got (and what many aftermarket pipes are). And yes - mine (as well as every YFZ I've seen) also glow even when BONE STOCK after idling for only a very short time... I guess the manufacturers like warrantying engines by jetting their quads unsafely lean.

I like this quote from a BMW site:
"Invariably a supercharger salesman will point to the turbo and flatly state that when it is glowing red hot, it will melt everything under the hood. The problem is knowledge, not the turbo. Iron and steel begin to glow red at around 1100 F. The stock exhaust gas temperature is in excess of that, thus the stock exhaust manifold glows when the car is driven hard. No damage is done in the stock condition and none will be done by the turbo."

Oh yeah - good luck at 4SW Chad, I'm sure you'll be schooling most of the regulars & can you imagine how everyone will worship you then?

Posted by: R3Concepts

quote:
Originally posted by 86atc250r
Never mind Chad - in his world he knows it all. After all, he did help with the 400ex that develops 70 Harley humbling ft/lbs of torque at 3200 RPM - can't argue with that.....

And yes, a glowing header is normal for a thin, stainless pipe like what the 450R's got (and what many aftermarket pipes are). And yes - mine (as well as every YFZ I've seen) also glow when BONE STOCK after idling for only a very short time... I guess the manufacturers like warrantying engines by jetting their quads unsafely lean.

Don't bother Chad, I already know what you've got to say about that.

Oh yeah - good luck at 4SW Chuck, I'm sure you'll be schooling most of the regulars & can you imagine how everyone will worship you then?

whos chuck?

Posted by: 86atc250r

Sorry, another way to say "Chad" (long story) - I changed it

Posted by: R3Concepts

my bad..none the less another fan though.

Posted by: chad502ex

quote:
Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
Chad,
Ill line our little 480 up against your bike, I got nothing to prove. Ill im saying is that the 4 SW are a lot tougher then you think..And i highly doubt youd beat that raptor. Kenz Cycle knows his sh*t. If your bike doesnt have a swingarm thats at least +8 its going to wheelie, if you wheelie at the 4SW, youre done, just got beat. Also your bike has the to get through the whoops well. Thought about a tire selection yet? Atvfanatics.com is the officail site of 4SW. Go to the official results page under 4SW:4 and theres a bunch of finals videos.

R3,

OH! i hear ya- i know 4sw is all about being the best out there. Those guys have to be if they are going to continue to sell their products. Remember, I don't sell anything. The only reason why the 550 would enter is for fun! The drive from east coast to west coast would be for fun not for a stink'n trophy. If it weren't a challenge it wouldn't be fun, right? If you won easily it wouldn't be fun either. For me its for fun not for money or some fan base. get freeg'n real!

LOL, I'd hope you'd line your 480 up just for fun cause you have to know there would be no way!

One other thing,.... you keep referring to my xc setup as though i don't have another setup for drag or dunes. I appreciate your observations, at least one fan is paying attention

R3, and thanks for the link- those guys over there are really fanatics... wahhoooo!

Gabe,

two words to you (deek-head!)

Posted by: R3Concepts

Trust me im no fan..Id like to hear more about this drag setup you got though. Id probably loose anyway but who knows maybe youd miss a shift, but prob. not since well..your the best. And just to let you know, Olds. is 75% whoops, if you can get through the whoops you lose, wheelie you lose, dont have a light bike you lose, and since we race mx, we know how to get through the whoops, our bike wont wheelie, and we have a light bike.."So your sayin theres a chance" - great movie.

Posted by: chad502ex

quote:
Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
Trust me im no fan..Id like to hear more about this drag setup you got though. Id probably loose anyway but who knows maybe youd miss a shift, but prob. not since well..your the best. And just to let you know, Olds. is 75% whoops, if you can get through the whoops you lose, wheelie you lose, dont have a light bike you lose, and since we race mx, we know how to get through the whoops, our bike wont wheelie, and we have a light bike.."So your sayin theres a chance" - great movie.

just saying that it'b fun trying,....

Posted by: R3Concepts

Have FUN tellin us about your drag setup that you have.

Posted by: chad502ex

quote:
Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
Have FUN tellin us about your drag setup that you have.

are you being a deek for a reason?

Posted by: R3Concepts

Im not trying to be, we just want to see what kind of drag setup you have..and the more you aviod it the less I think you may not have one like you say you do.

Posted by: chad502ex

quote:
Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
Im not trying to be, we just want to see what kind of drag setup you have..and the more you aviod it the less I think you may not have one like you say you do.

well i can say it's nothing like this setup,......

i have dune tires and can remove my airbox, does that count?

Posted by: 86atc250r

Hmmm- cr5 with custom cylinder?

Posted by: R3Concepts

That a packard bike..250r bottom end, rotax jug

Posted by: R3Concepts

You dont have a swinger or nothing? Damn.. What are you gonna make your own paddles too?

Posted by: chad502ex

looks awesome,... but if there is no seat and the air filter falls off your nutz would get sucked into the top end of the engine...

hmmmm or/i mean ouch!

Posted by: chad502ex

R3,

couldn't i run the 4sw 500+ modified class with no power adding turbo and my friend run the 500+ open with his efi-turbo?

Posted by: kgbg

Powervalve Rotax.
Chad, you can run 501+ mod if your on gasoline.Thats the calss I should be in as well.

Your buddy will be in the open class.
Manny Espino from Miami, and his GP 780 stroker Raptor wonthe King of the Hill, the 500+ builders class, and the 501+ mod class. He could have won the 501+ open class as well. He had a big ol NO2 bottle and never even had to use it.
The hill is NOT whooped during the event, they have a good grooming system. It was smooth as hell last year.

Posted by: chad502ex

quote:
Originally posted by kgbg
Powervalve Rotax.
Chad, you can run 501+ mod if your on gasoline.Thats the calss I should be in as well.

Your buddy will be in the open class.
Manny Espino from Miami, and his GP 780 stroker Raptor wonthe King of the Hill, the 500+ builders class, and the 501+ mod class. He could have won the 501+ open class as well. He had a big ol NO2 bottle and never even had to use it.
The hill is NOT whooped during the event, they have a good grooming system. It was smooth as hell last year.

thanks Kam. If we actually get to go, it should be a hoot!

Driving across country is out, so if we can't train or freight then no go.

Posted by: hemp450r

what are you going to do with chrome handlebar grips?

Posted by: 400exrider707

Wow this thread went downhill fast.....

I will say that those of you experiencing the glowing of the pipe on a stock head pipe for a 450R are definitely lean.....haha

Posted by: wykyd450R

My buddy just bought a new 07 the other day, and his glows too. What should he do?

Posted by: 400exrider707

Read the rest of the posts in this thread....the answer is already there.

Posted by: awj8074

quote:
Originally posted by 400exredrider
just dont touch it and youll be alright

my friend uses mine to light his cigarettes when we are out riding