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BIG motor problems
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Posted by: Matt102

My friggin motor went. I was riding around the other day and my rear wheels locked up on me. The spark plug looked great and I'd just changed the oil the week before, and it had coolant. I took off the valve cover and I had metal shavings all over the head. I figured it might be something with the piston and cylinder. Come to find out that some of the metal shavings got into the cylinder and marked up a small portion of the cylinder and piston. I need a new piston and I'm not yet sure about the cylinder, but it looks bad. The shavings were being caried around the oil. I took the engine oil side cover off and found TONS of metal shavings. They are EVERYWHERE on this engine, except for in the tranny. I haven't looked at the crank yet but the problem is pretty much narrowed to it. The machine was raced, but is a COMPLETELY stock engine, except for the HRC kit. Even still has the stock exhaust. Has anyone elsa had this problem? This is like 500+ dollars in damages. Is this motor just unreliable? Im not happy with honda and I'm a pretty hardcore honda fan. My warranty is over, too.

Posted by: Jersey450R

that sucks

Posted by: benwa450r

I don't think the motor is unreliable. I would like to know what the failure was. I just installed 13:1 piston and ran the crap out of it in sand drags this weekend with no problems. Could it be something came loose on cam? Were cam sprocket bolts lock-tite? Fill us in when you find the cause. Sorry for bad luck dude......

Posted by: dart450r

how far out of warranty was it? if it wasn't that far out... call hondas 1-800 line and complain....even tho it was raced... it only had a hrc kit in it, and that is hondas stuff....if they don't fix it... what are your plans... if you race cc classed racing and don't want to go big bore... i am interested in the cylinder... or if you want to go big bore... we have some 13.5 to 1 500cc pistons on www.trx450r.org for sale... let os know how we can help you... also i work for a honda dealer....(thats how i know to call honda)

Posted by: Matt102

There was nothing wrong with anything on the head, cam, valves, etc... It's down in the crank. Some of the filings came up from the crank, got into the cylinder, and slightly scored the cylinder and piston. Piston needs replaced. Cylinder I'm not sure about yet. I'll know tommorow. I'm thinking maybe a crank bearing went bad. I'm 3 months out of warrenty. I haven't even had this thing for a year!! And dart, if the cylinder is bad I'd be happy to sell it to you, because I need a 450 for when the lol pro-am national comes to one of our tracks each year. And thanks for all your support. I'll call my dealer tommorow and get that 800 number. Thanks.

Posted by: dart450r

another guy on www.trx450r.org had the close to same problem.... honda warrantied the stuff i think... his nickname is kgb

Posted by: Matt102

And the filings are absolutely everywere. You name, their in it. EXCEPT for the tranny side. Thank god for the sepparated oils. And I'm sure they're in my oil cooler too. My oil filter was just CAKED with em. It's rediculous. I'm not sure if I'll get to tearing down the crankcase tommorow, but if I do, I'll let ou know what the cause of it is.

Posted by: dart450r

call honda first before you split the case

Posted by: #1speedbump

The shavings were everywhere including in the cylinder but your unsure of it needs to be replaced??? WTF? At a minimum it will need to be honed but that is an absolute best case scenario. Also Shavings everywhere but not on spark plug????? Again WTF. I have went trough several top ends over the years and if shavings get ANYWHERE they will get to the plug. Several parts could fail and cause this but your description seems a bit weird to say the least.

Posted by: Matt102

They didn't get to the top of the piston. They got wedged on the side and were carried up and down between the cylinder and piston. The cylinder might be able to be saved, but I have to replace the piston. And dont bother posting if your gonna be an A**

Posted by: Dobson

yeah, i had the same problem, i found about 20 people on the net that this also happened too. your crank bearing is gone, i had about $1500 canadian in parts, new crank, left side case, pison and rings, oil pump, oil cooler, and a bunch of seals bearing and gaskets, honda covered it, i also had the hrc kit but that did not cause it beacause alot of people that have the same problem are stock, took about 3 weeks for all the part to come in, good luck

Posted by: Shawn H

quote:
Originally posted by #1speedbump
The shavings were everywhere including in the cylinder but your unsure of it needs to be replaced??? WTF? At a minimum it will need to be honed but that is an absolute best case scenario. Also Shavings everywhere but not on spark plug????? Again WTF. I have went trough several top ends over the years and if shavings get ANYWHERE they will get to the plug. Several parts could fail and cause this but your description seems a bit weird to say the least.

Cant hone the stock cylinder its plated>

Posted by: #1speedbump

I wasnt trying to be an a**, if that were the case i would have done a much better job

I just found your description a bit odd. As I said several parts could have failed and caused the problem.

Snow, thanks for the heads up, I wasnt sure if a niks cylinder could be honed.

Posted by: Matt102

Well, my dealer is gonna get it inspected by the honda rep. I'll be taking the engine to them on saturday. Do you know if they cover it will they give me my old stuff? If they do, Dart you can buy the cylinder off me. If I dont have to buy anything to fix this then I will let you have it for pretty cheap. We'll have to wait and see though. And dobson, were you still on a warranty? Mines about 2 mos. out. That definitely helps knowing that this has happened to that many people, so I know that it wasn't just mine. They ought to have a recall on this, because I dont feel like having this happen to me again. To everyone else, That's something to be aware of. Thanks for all your help and support guys.

Posted by: dart450r

if they still don't fix it... just call the 1-800 number in the back of your owners manual...and keep complaining... customer support is something with them.... we can call honda and it takes them awhile to reply, but when a customer calls in..... boy they are on you like flies on *****.... so be very persistant

Posted by: iceracer65

ive heard of this crank bearing prob too. a buddy of mine races the nat TTs just got his motor back from baldwin(national TT kit) said it hauled ***** in practice, then kept on getting slower. took it over to baldwins trailer and the crank bearing wasnt pressed into the case properly at the factory. glad i didnt have that problem.

Posted by: Matt102

did it ruin the case? I'm screwed if they dont cover this!

Posted by: Shawn H

I race with a kid who had the same problem. Bottom crank bearing went out! I guess a new crank is only $200 so that's not so bad!

Posted by: vasura450

Hey 01250Ex01 did you race Miles Mountain a few weeks ago? I seen your sponcers are from Gaines Pa, and you have a Herrmann front end. I know I seen some kid up there on a 450R with a Herrmann/Elka front end. I was talking to his cousin or brother or somehitng on a KFX. I was on a blue yfz #114. I won B/C Class...I dont know which one it was, they had it all mixed togther. Just wondering if that was you.

Tony

Posted by: Matt102

Yup, that was me!! And my cousin on the KFX. Were you the two on the yfz's? Your brother was 102 also right? He came up to me to make sure we wren't in the same class cause we had the same number. Unfortunately, my season is over because of this, but I'm gonna get my frame gusseted and powder coated and hopefully get an exhaust. Oh, this weekend miles mtn. is having a benefit for my freind. The previous day before the race they had an open practice. He nose dove into that big downhill triple landing(on a bike) and got hurt BAD. He just woke up out of acoma this week(thats 2 weeks after he actually crashed!) He is pretty much out of it right now. He looks around with a blank stare. They took him to rehab monday. I hope he's not crippled(mentally) the rest of his life, because he had a lot going for him. The bill will of course be well over 200,000 dollars for the family. There will be open practice, hopefully a band, and TONS of awseome door helprizes including mets and gear. I'm just gonna go to donate some money and watch and stuff. I'm kinda mad that my engine had to go right before this, but I consider myself lucky compared to my friend. Just goes to show that you need a helmet that fits. NO play in it AT ALL.

Posted by: Matt102

A cranks only 200 bucks, but what about a cylinder, piston, gaskets, bearing, possibly a crankcase. It'd be well over 600 bucks to fix.

Posted by: vasura450

Yeah I'll be up at Miles on Halloween for the d4 race. I cant make it up on hte 30th and the 31st so i picked the Halloween race. Hopefully they have a better turn out, i was kinda sissappointed by teh amount of quads there. I race d6 and out gate is always full. That sucks about your friend. I'll definetly donatoe soem moeny or whatever I can do. Is that party on the 30th or 31st?
See you up there!

Tony 114

Posted by: iceracer17

Don't tell me the cranks are going in these too.I got rid of the cdales for this reason.But honda prices seem to be a bit more reasonable.

Posted by: Matt102

The benefit will be next weekend on the 23rd. Like I said, I'll be going to watch seeing how I dont have a motor!

Anyways, Dart, should I speek to the service people or recall people when I call honda. I talked to the service guy, and he told me to have it inspected and they may cover it.

Posted by: kgbg

Mine did it too, and they covered me, out of warranty too. I had all the parts two days later.
Mine had nthing to do with the bearing, the crank itself started coming apart in very small pieces.

Posted by: TRX450R2

EEEEEEK! I hope that doesn't happen to mine? I've raced 26 hours on mine so far and seems OK and no frame cracks yet either but the paint is cracked and peeling on quite a few joins?

Posted by: Matt102

I race the local expert class and my frame looked great with no cracks. You could see some high stress areas w/ paint chipping though. I'm gonna get it gusseted just in case though.

Posted by: Bretmd94

im pretty glad i got the 5 year extended warrante now.

Always get the extended warrante on first year bikes. I learned my lesson with an 01 raptor.

Posted by: quadjeff

FYI guys are spoke to a honda guy and some of the engine problems are caused by low oil. You should check that glass window everytime you stop riding. I check my every moto and run it on the high side. They burn a little oil.. Hope you get it covered. I have a problem with the left side case leaking on top. They said no problem and are going to replace the left case and side case...

Posted by: TWISTED

How do you like the Holz products? A friend of mine bought one of Joe Byrd's bikes that has all Holz stuff on it. Seems like good stuff. Just curious on the pricing.

Posted by: Matt102

It had oil in it. I also check the oil every time. I like only having to take a glance down at it.

Posted by: Matt102

I dropped it off at the dealer saturday. He set the appt. up for tues. w/ the honda rep. He said when he was talking to the honda rep., he said that everybody on the internet was probably lying and that he has never seen this problem before. He supposedly inspects from like virginia up to new york. I'm starting to dislike my dealer because whenever I talk to him he always negative. He says that he doubts that it will be covered and if it does they wont cover 100% of it. This isn't looking good. I'm starting to dislike honda more and more everyday. Hopefully they redeem themselves by covering this! I would've rather just rebuilt the top end on the yamaha!

Posted by: Kennethyfz450

that sucks man!!

I told myself the next bike i get is going to be from a dealer i like and trust...

i bought to honda's and both broke but i had a great dealer, and they fixed it with no questions asked.. my yamaha dealer hates saying hello to me.. lol

what kind of oil was you running??
cranks seem to go out of both the 450's???
i wonder what causeing this..

im not saying yamaha has a crank problem, or honda ... i was just a little concern about cranks going out of these bikes......

on yfz central you see a few, and then comes you and your honda and the twenty people you talk to .. sorta scary...

Posted by: MixMasterMike

yes...what kind of oil were you running?

Posted by: Matt102

Castrol 5w-30.

Posted by: Blown 331

I've heard if you used anything other than motorcycle oil the additives break down within like 15 minutes of riding. It can't handle all the moving parts of a dirt bike motor. Not sure how much truth there is to that but I'm not gonna find out either. I'm sure having the trans seperate helps out a lot.

Posted by: kgbg

I ran ONLY GN4 and HP in mine changed it every 2 hours of ride time.
It was a crank problem, not a bearing problem (in mine).
I think the bearing failures are coming from out of true cranks. You should have seen how far out the two I have seen were. (They were the replacements)

Posted by: Matt102

I've used the same stuff in all my quads for the past 8 years(when I began riding). Except for 10w-40 in my past machines.

Posted by: iceracer65

quote:
Originally posted by 01250Ex01
Castrol 5w-30.

5w is way too light no matter what the application!!

this is a very high revving machine...you need something that has a "clinging" value. i run 20w50...i know thats prob too heavy,but at least i know i have it covered.

Posted by: Matt102

Well, I've been running it ever since I got the machine, and no problems untill now. I guess I could start running 10w-40 again, that is if I get my motor put back together. I know It'll take me a while to get the money to pay for it.