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houser long travel swing arm and linkage
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Posted by: holeshot19
has anyone seen it or tested in yet, i was looking threw the va gncc pix and seen mike bensons 450r and it had houser swing arm just wondering if its worth it i seem that the elka rear with there linkage works good but i would like a longer rear shock with more travel thanks
Posted by: sparky450AR
quote:
Originally posted by holeshot19
has anyone seen it or tested in yet, i was looking threw the va gncc pix and seen mike bensons 450r and it had houser swing arm just wondering if its worth it i seem that the elka rear with there linkage works good but i would like a longer rear shock with more travel thanks
Houser is a proven company, and many people in the past have been happy with there product. Ive heard good things about the elka link too.
Posted by: Scottie Mac
PM Pappy on this site, he has the Elka rear link on his 450R.
Scott
Posted by: dn1911
also GT Thunder has a link for the houser rear end as a cheaper option. i have his stock linkage coming can't wait to ride
Posted by: FatBoy Racing
I've been holding off on doing my rear end, waiting for this. A recent inquiry to Houser got me the following reply;
We have had the parts for the swing arm for a few weeks, but I did not let them be assembled. I have just designed a linkage for that bike & I want to make sure that all of the swing arms made would accept the new linkage. Some modifications had to be made. The shock will be 17", instead of 14.75". Won't hang down lower than the stock. Will require new front & rear linkage & will require, not sure what, air box work.
It will be worth the wait.
John
Posted by: quadjeff
This linkage is being raced on GNC... www.holzracingproducts.com
I have it along with 20 other guys and it is the chit!!
Posted by: holeshot19
quote:
Originally posted by quadjeff
This linkage is being raced on GNC... www.holzracingproducts.com
I have it along with 20 other guys and it is the chit!!
damn for that price i hope they would come to the house and install it you are talking about 2 grand for just the rear and its a single rate shock hell they want 1295 for the swinger and the linkage 
Posted by: kgbg
I don't know if Holtz gets what they are asking, but the prices are extremely high. They have a good rep. in the sled business, but to come in to the atv bus. charging as much as the most expensive aftermarket companies who have been here and doing r&d for years, is questionable to me. I am not saying anything about the quality ow perfoemance, I have no idea, I suppose its top notch, its just alot of coin for a new company.
Posted by: quadjeff
You have a good point. But the old saying you get what you pay for. The GT Thunder linkage and elka linkage is not changing anything but using a longer shock. I you are trying to change the motion of the rear end you have to replace the entire rear end. I no it kinda of sucks to do that but I race alot of MX and XC and it was the only solution to get the rear end to work. Good luck on any choice you make.
Posted by: holeshot19
bump
Posted by: holeshot19
bump
Posted by: PEPwalshZ440
get the walsh linkage or elka linkage
Posted by: holeshot19
??????????????
Posted by: kazpr
http://www.wrcracing.com/
Posted by: CdaleXtreme
Got the walsh rear end on its way I will let yall know how it works.
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
What kind of skid plate can you run with either the Walsh or Holz set-up?
Posted by: rowlrag
Heres mine
Posted by: rowlrag
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Posted by: cinigen9
rowlrag - what rear setup is that? what chassis height are you running?
thanks
Carson
Posted by: Jeff@TireBalls
quote:
Originally posted by cinigen9
rowlrag - what rear setup is that? what chassis height are you running?
thanks
Carson
He already left for the race so I'll answer for him.
The rear is stock swing arm with Elka LT/linkage setup at 8 1/2"
Posted by: cinigen9
Thanks Jeff. Did you guys modify the skid and expose the link?
Curious - what height do you run on your ATK.
Good luck this weekend,
Carson
Posted by: rowlrag
No, I use a PRM skid, but you have to trim out the places were the skid goes around the spring cause the Elka uses a bigger diameter spring. Need to take it off every few races or rides to see if a rock or something has knocked the skid into the linkage, if so beat it back out.
Posted by: joe1l
The Holtz swinger looks just like the Walsh Swiger setup. Thats alot of money to charge for a knock off!
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
I talked to Mike Benson(congrats on his win) at the Penton yesterday and he said the new LT swingarm from Houser should be out shortly. I know I can't wait to get my hands on one.
Posted by: John Houser
Here is the latest scope on the HOUSER LONG TRAVEL Linkage for the TRX450R. The stock length shock is 14.75" long, which is rather short and hard to tune. Our new design uses a shock 17.00" long with 5" of stroke. It produces 11.75" of wheel travel. The leverage ratio starts out at 2.70 and goes to 1.92. Very smooth progression in between. We have used this configuration before on our CRF450 chassis with great results. The new linkage is both the front & the rear pieces. These parts will bolt right on to OUR stock replacement +1.25" swing arm. they will NOT work on the stock swing arm. This is a great deal for us & the consummer. You can buy the swing arm using the stock linkage and then later use the long travel linkage with a new shock. The linkage is very attractive & (catch this), it does not hang down lower than the stock setup. Since the shock is longer, the bottom mount is swung towards the rear axle more, which makes it closer to the air box. More GREAT NEWS. We were able to design brackets that bolt onto the stock air box & raise it up about 5/8" to allow room for shock clearance. The stock air boot still works. The air box lid goes on without seat problems.
Larry Hendershot tested this on his MX setup July 4th weekend. Although the ELKA shock was set up for a 30 lb lighter rider, he was extremely impressed with it. Larry is presently running an ELKA link with an ELKA shock. He has been trying to tune his existing set up for over two months. He said that this setup, out of the box, work much better than his existing setup or anything that he has tried.
We are sending the same setup to Santo DeRisi this week end, 7-16-04 for cross country testing. He is the one that the shock was originally designed for. I would post a picture if I Knew how to do it.
Posted by: Jeff@TireBalls
quote:
Originally posted by cinigen9
Thanks Jeff. Did you guys modify the skid and expose the link?
Curious - what height do you run on your ATK.
Good luck this weekend,
Carson
I'm at 8 3/4 with 21" rears and 22" fronts.
John Houser, email me the pic cdalejef@bellsouth.net and I'll post it for you.
Posted by: kazpr
Tag and thanks alot John you getting me EXCITED!!
Posted by: Jeff@TireBalls
quote:
Originally posted by kazpr
Tag and thanks alot John you getting me EXCITED!!
Posted by: shaff107
What is the cost of just the linkage if u already have the swinger ?? Also when should these be releasted to the public ??
Posted by: quadjeff
The Holtz swinger looks just like the Walsh Swiger setup. Thats alot of money to charge for a knock off!
Hey Joe1 that is not a knock off. You have no idea what you are talking about. Both the holz linkage and Walsh likage are great for MX. I would not recommend either linkage for XC. HOLZ introduced his linkage in January.. And when did Walsh do his?? Last 2 months. Anyway that is the fact. You can not run skid plates covering either linkage. This is a MX set-up only. You will tear this stuff to pieces in the XC (it is aluminum). I have a titanium set-up linkage for the XC. Walsh is $1,350 and Holz is $1,150. You can not even imagine a price for Titanium if you are worried about $1,150-$1,300... Did houser say you can use a skid?? They make great components also.
Posted by: Santo DeRisi
I think that the Houser linkage is going to be about $350.
Like John said i will be testing the setup here very soon and i think that everyone will be EXTREMLY happy with the setup. you will be able to order the complete setup from me or directly from houser. John and Jeff Houser have been working very hard to design all of this and they are definately going in the right direction.
Stay tuned for new information as i get it......
Posted by: kazpr
Tks alot santo I will get one coming from you as soon as they are ready!
Posted by: holeshot19
talked to santo the other day still havent go it yet but was eger to get it
Posted by: John Houser
We sent the whole set up to SANTO on Wed, 7-21-04. He should have it on Friday. I e-mailed Jeff at the quad shop pictures of swing arm & linkage. I hope he can post them.
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by John Houser
We sent the whole set up to SANTO on Wed, 7-21-04. He should have it on Friday. I e-mailed Jeff at the quad shop pictures of swing arm & linkage. I hope he can post them.
john, if we currently have the elka linkage and shock with a stock swing arm, do we have to get a new shock with your set up? or can it be converted?
Posted by: Jeff@TireBalls
Ok, here is the info that John sent me (very nice)!
The Linkage kit will sell for $350. The air box lifter kit will sell for $55.
As you can tell by the left side picture, the relationship between the chain & the linkage that it does not hang down farther than the stock set up. These pictures were taken at full droop.
I feel very confident that this setup will work extremely well.
Posted by: Jeff@TireBalls
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Posted by: John Houser
You do need a new shock. Your existing stock length shock is 14.75" with 4.25"(approx) of shaft travel. Our setup will require a 17.00" shock with 5.0" of shaft travel. The new shock will be 2.25" longer!!! This be huge increase on the spring lengths & intervalving. This shock will be much easier to tune.
When you get a rear end that works well, the rider will mostly talk about how awesome the setup works in the woops & on the big jumps. I think that one big benifit to using a rear end that works is during the hole shot. As with the stock setup on the YFZ450, the first part of the travel was good, then it got real stiff. At this point during a holeshot, your wheels will spin. If your rear end works well thru all of the travel, the wheels will remain in contact with the ground, thus putting more power into forward motion. After Tracie Ceco used our long travel linkage on her YFZ450, I asked how it was working & she said GREAT! I asked how her hole shots were & she said, you know what, I haven't lost one since I put it on!
Posted by: John Houser
Jeff, Thanks for posting the pictures.
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by John Houser
After Tracie Ceco used our long travel linkage on her YFZ450, I asked how it was working & she said GREAT! I asked how her hole shots were & she said, you know what, I haven't lost one since I put it on!
i was there when they tested your linkage for the first time and i felt it worked fine also.
so what are we looking at as far as availablity and time for delivery?
Posted by: John Houser
We just sent 16 swing arms to the finish welder. We have parts for 50 and will continue to make them until they are finished. We have 50 of the Linkages. 20 of the air box lifter kits. The swinga arm uses the stock bearing carrier. We also have 50 or so of these. They are nice because the grease zirc is on the outside of the bearing carrier. Getting everything together at the beginning of a new project always takes more time than I like, but we try to work at it. Most of the the initial run will go to fill orders that we have already taken.
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
I ordered mine on Monday,about how long will the wait be?
Posted by: holeshot19
bumpty bump
Posted by: jb500ex
ordered my long travel a-arms today can't wait
Posted by: AZDESRTRACR
quote:
Originally posted by John Houser
We just sent 16 swing arms to the finish welder. We have parts for 50 and will continue to make them until they are finished. We have 50 of the Linkages. 20 of the air box lifter kits. The swinga arm uses the stock bearing carrier. We also have 50 or so of these. They are nice because the grease zirc is on the outside of the bearing carrier. Getting everything together at the beginning of a new project always takes more time than I like, but we try to work at it. Most of the the initial run will go to fill orders that we have already taken.
Can you use your linkage with a roll swingarm and use the 17 inch shock? Or are the shock mounts different?
Posted by: Santo DeRisi
quote:
Originally posted by John Houser
We sent the whole set up to SANTO on Wed, 7-21-04. He should have it on Friday. I e-mailed Jeff at the quad shop pictures of swing arm & linkage. I hope he can post them.
I got the rear end and already have it on. I will do testing on it all this weekend. I can tell you this......everything bolts on with ease!! I will post about the results after this weekend!
Thanks John for getting all this to me!
Posted by: CatMostFeared
Hows does this LT effect the chain.Does it get to tight or to loose.
Posted by: sparky450AR
quote:
Originally posted by CatMostFeared
Hows does this LT effect the chain.Does it get to tight or to loose.
Hey, thats a good question. Never thought of that, you probably have to adjust your chain a little looser than you did stock. But all the sag may make it close to the same. It seems to me that if your rear ride height was always 8.5 or wheverever you run it, that nothing should change.
Posted by: John Houser
The chain tension variation is based on the relationship of three points, the motor sprocket, the swing arm pivot point(bolt) and the rear sprocket. When theses three points are in a straight line, the chain is as tight as it will get. When the swing arm is rotated up or down from this point, the chain will get loose. The swing arm linkage has no effect on the chain tension. That is based on the relationship of the three points. Since the linkage WILL allow more swing arm travel, the chain will lose more tension as it moves farther from the straight line.
The ideal situation is to have these three work points straight when the swing arm is in the middle of it's travel. We did this when we made the CRF450 chassis. When you have a stock frame you can't change it. If there is too much chain slop, upper chain rollers are usually added to take this up under full compressed conditions.
Posted by: sparky450AR
quote:
Originally posted by John Houser
The chain tension variation is based on the relationship of three points, the motor sprocket, the swing arm pivot point(bolt) and the rear sprocket. When theses three points are in a straight line, the chain is as tight as it will get. When the swing arm is rotated up or down from this point, the chain will get loose. The swing arm linkage has no effect on the chain tension. That is based on the relationship of the three points. Since the linkage WILL allow more swing arm travel, the chain will lose more tension as it moves farther from the straight line.
The ideal situation is to have these three work points straight when the swing arm is in the middle of it's travel. We did this when we made the CRF450 chassis. When you have a stock frame you can't change it. If there is too much chain slop, upper chain rollers are usually added to take this up under full compressed conditions.
Thats makes perfect sense. Thanks alot john.
Posted by: holeshot19
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
[B]I got the rear end and already have it on. I will do testing on it all this weekend. I can tell you this......everything bolts on with ease!! I will post about the results after this weekend!
SANTO hit me up if u want to come down this way this weekend and ill help u with that cam.
Posted by: Ty's400
Sounds like an awesome setup! Let us know what you think Santo.
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
I should have my Houser LT front and rear set-up on by the weekend. Has anybody else got there's?
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by BIGBLOCKBILL
I should have my Houser LT front and rear set-up on by the weekend. Has anybody else got there's?
hey Bill, will you measure the overall length of one of your houser a arms? i have my LT's and i dont think they are the right length
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
I'll measure them tomorrow and let you know. What makes you think they're the wrong lenght?
Posted by: Pappy
becuase they barely fit in my oven
i compared them and they look like they will be fine. i wanted +2 to try and stablize this pig. i should have them on this weekend
Posted by: CatMostFeared
John Houser why not make a no link rear end or is there room.
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
quote:
Originally posted by Pappy
becuase they barely fit in my oven
i compared them and they look like they will be fine. i wanted +2 to try and stablize this pig. i should have them on this weekend
Sounds to me like you need a bigger oven,doesn't your wife complain My measurements won't do you any good,mine are only plus 1/2's.I just got everything on tonight. The rear set-up looks like it will work well,can't wait to try it. John houser told me I got the third one he's sold,sure hope it's worth the money. I'll let everyone know what I think.
Posted by: John Houser
Get off of the computer & get that new swing arm & linkage on & go ride it. I hope that it works well. I did talk to Santo & he had tried the setup & said that it works great! I'll let him post his response.
In response to the no link question. I did not spend much time trying to solve the problem with the no link. Typically that solution has the shock mounted high on the swing arm, which interfers with the air box. I have found that if the solution is not a "bolt on inexpensive solution", the potential sales out there are very limited. Another problem with the no link solution is that there are less variables in the solution to get leverage ratio that I try to achieve on an inch by inch solution.
We are starting to fabricate another 50 swing arms this morning. Once the word gets out on these, they'll be very hard to keep in stock.
Posted by: cinigen9
John - your comment on an inch by inch solution: is there an ideal equation you shoot for? I see a lot of talk about range of leverage/motion ratio, but I have had no luck in uncovering what the relationship should be as the suspension passes through its travel. If you were to graph it out on paper, what would the ideal curve look like? Do you just shoot for as linear as possible?
thanks,
Carson
Posted by: Santo DeRisi
I will post a full response on the rear end Sunday night or sometime monday! Stay Tuned!!
Posted by: rowlrag
Santa must not be done ridin dat sled yet
Posted by: shaff107
Santo what is the call on the LT rear end ?? i am faced with a big choice right now. Either redue a complete set of axis shocks to fit my 450R. OR buy the LT set up and redue the Elka Rear shock ?
what does everyone else think i should due first ???
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
I haven't got mine fully dialed in but they feel much better than standard travel Elkas. The LT rear took all the bucking out of the rear. Really worth the exrtra money.
Posted by: John Houser
The bucking should be greately reduced, if not actually eliminated, with the HOUSER Long Travel Linkage. The longer shock should be much easier to tune. Since the shock is 2.62" longer, the transition from one spring rate to another will be much better.
I hope that Santo could give the setup a challenge. The swing arm that I sent to him was the first one that we made for MX testing & did not have skid plate mounts on it. He should be getting his finished swing arm by the end of this week.
Posted by: Pappy
Trust me John...BIGBLOCKBILL gave them parts one hell of a work out!
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
You the man Pappy.
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by BIGBLOCKBILL
You the man Pappy.
i was watching your suspension work just to see if John was full of BS or he actually knew something about this stuff 
The suspension looked good and even hitting that rock wall i didnt see it kick up on you.
Good job John!
Posted by: jb500ex
i cant wait too get all my houser stuff in
Posted by: John Houser
Pappy,
Nice picture. I agree with you, Listen to the sales pitch, but someone needs to go out & try the new stuff. The tester must have enough knowledge of the existing products, or stock steup, to provide good feedback. Developing something like this is more difficult than it seems. Kind of like Tiger hitting the golf ball, the swing only takes 3 seconds, how hard can it be!
If this setup proves to work as well as I expect it to and the sales are there, should I go back & attempt to solve the 400EX swing arm & linkage problem. Do you think there are potential sales out there?
Posted by: npsxtreme
John,
I have one of your full rear set ups for the TRX on the way through my local dealer. I also have a Lonestar crf450 with 400ex geometry. If the TRX set up works well for me, I will be more than willing to order the set up for my CRF. Thanks for your interest! It's people such as yourself that keep the industry going and provide hope for it in the future!
Posted by: sparky450AR
John,
Which would you prefer for your long travel products.....elka quad rate, or axis triple rate. I talked to axis awhile back and they said that 4 different spring rates are not needed. They actually told me that with a standard travel setup only two spring rates are really needed. Anyways, which would you prefer?
thanks
Posted by: shaff107
Good Question Sparky. Which do u prefer to have on your products John?? Axis or Elka ??
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by John Houser
Pappy,
should I go back & attempt to solve the 400EX swing arm & linkage problem. Do you think there are potential sales out there?
from a business stand point I would check the sales figures of 400ex LT a arms and swing arms. If they have remained steady or show an increase in the last 6 months then yes, designing the products may be worthwhile.
If however the sales have declined over the last 6 months on 400ex based products then I say no.
(i say 6 months because thats how long the 450R has been out and should show the buying trend)
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
What Pappy was getting at was that if people haven't been buying parts based on existing technology why would they buy any parts based on the latest technology. I know I personally won't buy any more 400EX parts unless the ones on mine fail. I'll put my money into a pair of 450R's first. I mite create an arguement,but I feel the 400EX just can't be made competetive and reliable at the same time,100% of the time. I know there are exceptions, but we're dealing with the whole picture not a small part of it.
Posted by: Pappy
BIGBLOCKBILL is hearing what im sayin!
John is smart and im sure he gets what im refering too also.
Id love to see the 400ex fixed also but if the demand isnt there to produce the "fix" then why bother. I doubt the 400ex will see further suspension enhancements by the aftermarket unless its a running change based on technology derived from working with the 450R. A company cant be expected to sink 30k in producing a new product when chances are it wont be a seller in the market.
Thanks again John for keeping us updated on all your products!
Posted by: Pappy
I think Houser products are well advertised. Im sure John is trying to decide if its financially beneficial to him and his company to produce a product that may have limited sales potential....and in my opinion it doesnt have a chance.
The 450R and YFZ and even the new Suzuki will be what the aftermarket goes after in the next few years. While 400ex sales may stay consistant, the number of 400ex's fully modified will be much much less then what we have seen the past 4 years.
John you need to get busy building a decent priced replacement frame for the 450R...and you can put my name on the first one!
Posted by: Dave400ex
I must agree with Pappy. I don't think building something for the 400ex at this point would be worth it. If your going to be buying a full LT setup like that, more then likely you will be putting it on a 450R, YFZ450, or hopefully soon a Z450.
Posted by: sparky450AR
quote:
Originally posted by Dave400ex
I must agree with Pappy. I don't think building something for the 400ex at this point would be worth it. If your going to be buying a full LT setup like that, more then likely you will be putting it on a 450R, YFZ450, or hopefully soon a Z450.
My dad is looking for a good long travel set-up for his 400ex. My uncle is looking for a long travel set-up for his z-400. People are always upgrading there quads, and as long as atv sales stay consistent, i think aftermarket part sales will stay consistent.....including suspension and control mods. Just my opinion.
Posted by: rowlrag
Where is Santo where is Santo!
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
I've been wondering the same thing,he's supposed to be working on a different spring package for my Houser LT rear.
Posted by: holeshot19
quote:
Originally posted by rowlrag
Where is Santo where is Santo!
i was walking the mideast race with santo yeaterday and i got some feed back but its top secert
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
PM me because I've got one and need to know what Santo thinks.I've been trying to call him but we keep missing each other. We'll "compare notes".
Posted by: CatMostFeared
PM me because I just wanna know
Posted by: John Houser
#& Pro GNCC rider Todd Knippenberg has the HOUSER Racing long travel setup. He has been running the HOUSER swing arm with the Elka shock & linkage. We just got him the linkage a few weeks ago. He is waiting on the Elka shock. Elka was waiting on info from Santo before making Todd's shock. I will have him post a report after he has tested it.
Posted by: UNCLE BUCKI
does anyone have this setup on there quads yet??????if so howes it working and do they have elkas or axis!!!!!
Posted by: Pappy
I asked santo how it was and if it worked....
he replied "is a pigs puss pork"
Posted by: CatMostFeared
quote:
Originally posted by rowlrag
Where is Santo where is Santo!
Posted by: rowlrag
quote:
Originally posted by John Houser
#& Pro GNCC rider Todd Knippenberg has the HOUSER Racing long travel setup. He has been running the HOUSER swing arm with the Elka shock & linkage. We just got him the linkage a few weeks ago. He is waiting on the Elka shock. Elka was waiting on info from Santo before making Todd's shock. I will have him post a report after he has tested it.
He was suppose to be testin weeks ago. This setup should never have been brought up untill it is COMPLETELY FINISHED! Do you understand Mr. Houser? Makes people think you drag your feet.
Posted by: CatMostFeared
quote:
Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
I will post a full response on the rear end Sunday night or sometime monday! Stay Tuned!!
2 weeks later and I'm out of tune
Give me one and I'll test and report on it the same day 
Posted by: lukester720
quote:
Originally posted by CatMostFeared
2 weeks later and I'm out of tune
Give me one and I'll test and report on it the same day
No doubt! Where you at santo?
Posted by: John Houser
I do not know why Santo has not posted. He has tested it & is extremely happy with the setup.
During the testing we did find out that the linkage needs to be beefed in the shock connection area. We just finished that adjustment. The revised linkage is being made now. None of the linkage geometry was changed, it was just made stronger. We did sell a few of these units. I will be sending out replacements to these few customers that had already purchased these.
Posted by: GNCCracer
I totally agree with what Rowlrag said. This is typical of Houser though.
Posted by: Pappy
i know santo is swamped with getting ready for his wedding and moving into his new house so that maybe the reason he hasnt posted.
good job John on another great set -up!
Posted by: Santo DeRisi
Hello Everyone 
It sure has been busy around here and Pappy you hit the nail on the head! Sorry everyone for keeping you waiting!
Anyhow.....The Houser Long Travel rear-end works perfect. You get the travel needed with the linkage and shock change. If anyone needs any help setting up the rear end just let me know. I did the testing with a Elka rear shock and i will be doing some more testing with a Axis rear shock also.
This setup also eliminates all the kicking that everyone has been noticing on the 450R. You can hit a 6" diameter tree laying in the trail on the gas and it will soak it up. The 450 even jumps great with the rear setup for XC...... Mr. Houser did his homework...
I want everyone to understand that i did not get paid to say any of this and i would NEVER post ANY false information! If anybody has any questions about any of this please call me or send me a message!
I am going to try to keep some of these rear ends in stock so if anybody wants them please give me a call and check in with me. If i don't have any i can get John Houser to send me some pretty quick!
One more thing ....... John i wanted to thank you for giving me the opertunity to do this testing for you.
Posted by: CatMostFeared
Alright thats what I was waiting for.
Posted by: lukester720
Thanks for the update! In the new Dirtwheels they take Mike Bensons FST500R for a test ride and they said "This Elka/Houser equipped trx500r is one of the best handling hondas we have ridden at high or low speeds. Trail obstacles, no matter how big, were no match."
Way to go John Houser!
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
Hey Santo,let me know how the Axis work. I just ordered the LT frt and rr for my new R with Axis shocks. The Elka's just aren't where there suppossed to be.
Posted by: UNCLE BUCKI
i recieved my axis shocks last week for my houser long travel ft and rr end, and i will say that santo and john are not kidding this setup really works great , ive not really had a good comparison since ive only ridden them in one race but they worked so good it was scarry at times how much it feels like my nolink r i rode last year , of course its too early to tell if the shochs are exact (need more time to compare the two head to head and tinker with the shocks a bit) but i can truly say that axis and santo are really close with the setup on the shocks and john has diffinatly hit a homerun with the ft and rr ends
thanks john houser and santo derisi
gncc#47 todd demaree
Posted by: rowlrag
quote:
Originally posted by BIGBLOCKBILL
Hey Santo,let me know how the Axis work. I just ordered the LT frt and rr for my new R with Axis shocks. The Elka's just aren't where there suppossed to be.
What do you mean by that? Just curious, preference?
Posted by: UNCLE BUCKI
if you meen houser it seems to hold up in the long run ive never had a problem with there products and axis and santo know what the setups for cross country should be. nothing against elka but the shocks they sent before werent even close but they did every thing they could to make them right ,thats one thing there good at is making the customer happy
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
quote:
Originally posted by rowlrag
What do you mean by that? Just curious, preference?
I've had three sets of Elkas and they don't seem to work well in all situations. I think Elka relies too much on their quick turnaround reputation and not enough on their product. I know we're dealing with new products here,but the rear of my 450R sits almost as tall as stock and the front is 2" lower. I can't raise the front anymore or lower the rear anymore,the springs just aren't right.I've been working with Santo a little trying to get this corrected. I have a 400EX with Axis and love it,so I thought I would try them on my new R. Don't get me wrong I think Elka makes a great product and hopefully I can fix the set I already have(I'm still learning to).
Posted by: rowlrag
I have never owned or rode Axis so I can't compare, but mine with Elka front and rear LT houser front and a Gt thunder rear link on the stock swinger is working awesome. Haven't touched the valving in the front just different spring setup, the rear I have revalved 4 times trying different stacks with the Elka link and the GT link, and really like the GT link better. No kicking in the back. Very interested in the Houser rear but I don't want a longer swing arm.
By the way what kind of ride height you guy's runnin with rider?
Posted by: cinigen9
do you know which one of the gtthunder links you are running? what length shock are you using with it?
thanks
Carson
Posted by: rowlrag
I don't remember the rear length off hand, but it is there shock for there link, the GT link is the xc, call Laz and ask him what link John Rowling is running to know for sure. 330-674-7122 he's closed tomorrow tho
Posted by: Santo DeRisi
quote:
Originally posted by BIGBLOCKBILL
Hey Santo,let me know how the Axis work. I just ordered the LT frt and rr for my new R with Axis shocks. The Elka's just aren't where there suppossed to be.
You mean you didn't order them from me ?
Posted by: Santo DeRisi
quote:
Originally posted by UNCLE BUCKI
i recieved my axis shocks last week for my houser long travel ft and rr end, and i will say that santo and john are not kidding this setup really works great , ive not really had a good comparison since ive only ridden them in one race but they worked so good it was scarry at times how much it feels like my nolink r i rode last year , of course its too early to tell if the shochs are exact (need more time to compare the two head to head and tinker with the shocks a bit) but i can truly say that axis and santo are really close with the setup on the shocks and john has diffinatly hit a homerun with the ft and rr ends
thanks john houser and santo derisi
gncc#47 todd demaree
So Todd everything is working good so far? Call me if you need anything....
Posted by: Santo DeRisi
quote:
Originally posted by rowlrag
I have never owned or rode Axis so I can't compare, but mine with Elka front and rear LT houser front and a Gt thunder rear link on the stock swinger is working awesome. Haven't touched the valving in the front just different spring setup, the rear I have revalved 4 times trying different stacks with the Elka link and the GT link, and really like the GT link better. No kicking in the back. Very interested in the Houser rear but I don't want a longer swing arm.
By the way what kind of ride height you guy's runnin with rider?
Frame to ground ..... around 8" ...
Posted by: Pappy
quote:
Originally posted by BIGBLOCKBILL
I've had three sets of Elkas and they don't seem to work well in all situations. I think Elka relies too much on their quick turnaround reputation and not enough on their product. I know we're dealing with new products here,but the rear of my 450R sits almost as tall as stock and the front is 2" lower. I can't raise the front anymore or lower the rear anymore,the springs just aren't right.I've been working with Santo a little trying to get this corrected. I have a 400EX with Axis and love it,so I thought I would try them on my new R. Don't get me wrong I think Elka makes a great product and hopefully I can fix the set I already have(I'm still learning to).
bill i had the same issue with my elka rear on my R. i have a new one on the way so im hoping they corrected the spring rates they used on the first version of shock for this quad
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
quote:
Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
You mean you didn't order them from me ?
Sorry man Axis direct,I need one more new set and two old sets redone. You think you could hook me up?
Posted by: cinigen9
quote:
Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
Frame to ground ..... around 8" ...
Santo - is that similar to where you run your yfz?
thanks
Carson
Posted by: Santo DeRisi
quote:
Originally posted by cinigen9
Santo - is that similar to where you run your yfz?
thanks
Carson
I would have to check it i am not sure right off..... we have changed it around so much that i am not sure where we ended up at.....
Posted by: holeshot19
them elka boys are on it i ordered the long travel rear yesterday and he call back today and was shiping it out wow. i installed one of the rear ends on jim lamberts bike on saturday and his raced it on sunday and with that said we didnt get to tune on it before he raced, he was impressed,
Posted by: TDBRPH
quote:
Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
I would have to check it i am not sure right off..... we have changed it around so much that i am not sure where we ended up at.....
I too would be interested to see what you are running for ride height on your YFZ it looks slammed low in the pics.....
Thanks
Triston
Posted by: Santo DeRisi
I will check it and see what i come up with....
Posted by: TDBRPH
Thanks I appreciate it !!
Posted by: Santo DeRisi
quote:
Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
Frame to ground ..... around 8" ...
I am going to rephrase that! It is 7"
Posted by: Hammer trx450r
Hey guys i also have the full LT elka setup. What are u guys changing on the elkas? Because im thinking i need a heavier spring. And why is it the rear shock can't be lowered anymore?
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
I'm running the next lightest rear spring on mine than what the shock came with. It's alot plusher and got my ride height down to about 8 1/2 " with 20" tires. I'm going to try it this weekend on a very rough XC track. I'll give an update on Monday.
Posted by: Hammer trx450r
And how does it work with elka? am i down a shock for a couple weeks?
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
Just call them,a spring change doesn't require sending the shock back. Only valving changes or a rebuild.
Posted by: Santo DeRisi
I also have some Elka long travel front shocks for a trx450R new still in the box for sale if anyone is interested. The are quad rate fully adjustable.
Posted by: rowlrag
So how bout the rear end Santo? Can you tell the swinger is longer? Is it a smoother ride?
Posted by: Santo DeRisi
It definately rides smoother!!!! Alot smoother!
Kicking is gone too!
You can tell that the rearend is longer.
John Houser ----- Are you going to make a standard length Swing arm that will work with the long travel linkage on the TRX?
Posted by: rowlrag
That would be nice to have the option. Really don't need any longer in the woods.
Posted by: cady#1
so rowlrag the front end isn't as light as every body makes it out to be??
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
I like mine longer,it lets the quad turn easier going up hill. Also seems to turn more precise when your on the gas. As with everything to each his own. Everyone rides a little different.
Posted by: rowlrag
quote:
Originally posted by cady#1
so rowlrag the front end isn't as light as every body makes it out to be??
Nothing todo with that, I like short for shorter turning in tight woods, Thats why I don't want a longer swinger. Remember the days of 86 250r's, when 88 and 89 came out almost all woods guy's wanted the 88-89 swingarm cause they turned better and better traction.
Posted by: Hammer trx450r
quote:
Originally posted by rowlrag
Nothing todo with that, I like short for shorter turning in tight woods, Thats why I don't want a longer swinger. Remember the days of 86 250r's, when 88 and 89 came out almost all woods guy's wanted the 88-89 swingarm cause they turned better and better traction.
The reason i still have stock swinger. Affraid to lose that even for MX
Posted by: cady#1
quote:
Originally posted by rowlrag
Nothing todo with that, I like short for shorter turning in tight woods, Thats why I don't want a longer swinger. Remember the days of 86 250r's, when 88 and 89 came out almost all woods guy's wanted the 88-89 swingarm cause they turned better and better traction.
thanks for letting me know. Thats a little before my time, ive only been really riding/racing for about a year.
Posted by: CatMostFeared
I like the stock length in didnt seem to lite to me.
Sometimes on the YFZ I wish it was 1" shorter
I just wondered if it turns and tracks good in the tight stuff.
Posted by: cady#1
Does anybody know if you can run the stock shock on the houser swinger and linkage?
Posted by: 86atc250r
No - the stock shock is much shorter than the shock required for the Houser setup.
Posted by: cady#1
HOw much better is the houser compared to the gt thunder. Do ya think its like comparing apples to oranges or is the houser a much smoother working rear end? Saying they both had the same shock
Posted by: sparky450AR
quote:
Originally posted by cady#1
HOw much better is the houser compared to the gt thunder. Do ya think its like comparing apples to oranges or is the houser a much smoother working rear end? Saying they both had the same shock
This is a question that not many people, if any on here would be able to answer truthfully. But its a question that a lot of people have!
Posted by: kazpr
lol sparky that is the million $$ question
Posted by: sparky450AR
quote:
Originally posted by kazpr
lol sparky that is the million $$ question
****, I cant even afford the linkage. lol
Posted by: 86atc250r
Which is better? That's a very subjective question that like Sparky said, very few will have the experience to answer - and those that do are likely to be biased for one reason or another.
About all you can do is understand the facts.
GTT Linkage - Laz's specialty is careful shock setup and careful repositioning of the travel in the chassis (which is what the linkage does)
Houser's claim to fame on their setup is a lower leverage ratio - which makes the shock a lot easier to setup & makes for fewer rebuilds to maintain performance & less fade. The rest will depend on how much attention was paid to travel location in the chassis, etc.
GTT's setup will be very good for those on a budget and/or those that don't want to buy a new swingarm. You can choose whether you want to spend the cash for a custom shock with his setup or you can stick with the OEM shock. You can get Laz's entry level setup for around $250.
Houser's setup is going to cost you a pretty penny by the time you buy a swingarm, a custom shock, and the linkage itself. I'd guess somewhere in the realm of $2000 or more (about $900 for the swingarm/linkage and about $1000 for the shock).
Both will likely substantially outperform stock --- decide how much you want to spend, talk to both builders and decide which fits your needs best. Maybe the the more significant question is - is Houser's setup almost 10 times better than GT Thunder's??
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
I've never ridden a bike with the GT thunder set-up,but I would have to say the Houser is superior due to the longer shock and better linkage ratio,while the GTT uses the stock length shock and a lower linkage ratio.So yes in my opinion it's like comparing apples to oranges.
Posted by: kazpr
A interesting thing is on the HOLZ racing setup the custom axis they recommend is only like $650.00 Single rate.
Bill what kinda shock setup are you running??
What does Houser recommend for rear shock?
I am curious about the new elka hi lows as I am on a tight budget from my wife
Posted by: 86atc250r
That is interesting -- my shock estimate may be a bit high then.
Posted by: BIGBLOCKBILL
quote:
Originally posted by kazpr
A interesting thing is on the HOLZ racing setup the custom axis they recommend is only like $650.00 Single rate.
Bill what kinda shock setup are you running??
What does Houser recommend for rear shock?
I am curious about the new elka hi lows as I am on a tight budget from my wife
I'm running the Elka Elites(hi/lo comp.)Houser recommends Elkas or Axis 17". Cost wise I have about $3800 in LT a-arms,swingarm,linkage,air box lift,and Elka Elites.
Posted by: quadrcr161
that really dosent sound too bad of a price, i see it includes, all 3 shocks, and suspensions pieces?
it seems like houser is a good product and not too high like the LSR or walsh. i remember the old days of JP racing, and now it seems like everyone is making suspension parts, it can get kinda hard to chose from.
quote:
Originally posted by BIGBLOCKBILL
I'm running the Elka Elites(hi/lo comp.)Houser recommends Elkas or Axis 17". Cost wise I have about $3800 in LT a-arms,swingarm,linkage,air box lift,and Elka Elites.
Posted by: 86atc250r
quote:
and now it seems like everyone is making suspension parts, it can get kinda hard to chose from.
Maybe sometime with this being the case, suspension parts prices will actually come in line with reality & it won't almost double the price of the quad to put 3 shocks, a set of control arms and a swingarm on the machine....
Posted by: joe1l
quote:
Maybe sometime with this being the case, suspension parts prices will actually come in line with reality & it won't almost double the price of the quad to put 3 shocks, a set of control arms and a swingarm on the machine....
Yeah I can't wait for the day that someone comes in and introduces a suspension package that is 1/2 the price of others and still performs much better than stock...who ever they are will definately make a bundle attracting the masses!!! Price can affect the demand in my opinon especially if the price is reasonable!! Who knows maybe one day a-arms will be sold at Walmart and people like me will be happy!!!! This could only help the industry, allowing more and more people to have machines that are competitive on the track, especially for those who don't have an unlimited budget, this might help popularize the sport in general with more and more people entering the races, and eventually watching them. This is why motocross has always been soo popular, people can go buy a stock CRF450R or CR250R and be competitive with the addition of a pipe and shock revalve. I understand that what these suspension guys do is an art, but it looks like more and more people are getting into it, and its about time for prices to start falling!!! 700 for a-arms is freaking robery IMO, yes they work wonders, but after shocks and new brake lines your at an easy 1500 and this a nice "Recreational setup". How is that even reasonable, especially after spending 7K on ATV for Recreational use!!! All i'm saying is that I hope some of the greedy people in the industry realize that they might be able to profit even more if they just sold more instead of just charged more!!!
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